From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nicolas Goaziou Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Using Org as the source format to generate org.texi Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 15:07:34 +0100 Message-ID: <87zi3dcrq1.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> References: <878tb5axms.fsf@bzg.fr> <87371762r3.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1520865632 31045 195.159.176.226 (12 Mar 2018 14:40:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 14:40:32 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 (gnu/linux) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 12 15:40:28 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1evOcl-0007vE-Sc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 15:40:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59214 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1evOeo-0001AA-MU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:42:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41265) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1evOdj-00016V-36 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:41:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1evOdg-0000kn-1g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:41:27 -0400 Original-Received: from relay3.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.223]:37113 helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1evOdf-0000ic-Q8; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:41:23 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 185.131.40.67 Original-Received: from saiph (unknown [185.131.40.67]) (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00FD5821AF; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 15:07:36 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ngz by saiph with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1evO6w-0001vf-TF; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 15:07:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 11 Mar 2018 19:26:28 -0400") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.178.223 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:223640 Archived-At: Hello, Richard Stallman writes: > Texinfo has a number of overlapping constructs that look > the same in certain output formats but different in others. > Does Org have constructs 100% equivalent to > @dfn, @emph, @strong, @code, @samp, @var, @kbd, @key? Org has lightweight markup for @emph, @strong, @code and @samp out of the box: /emph/, *strong*, ~code~ and =samp=. @var, @kbd and @key are defined, in "org-manual.org", through a one-liner mechanism called a macro. There, @var{foo} becomes {{{var(foo)}}} and @kbd{M-@key{RET}} becomes {{{kbd(M-RET)}}} (the "@key" part is automatically deduced from the contents of the macro). However, "org-manual.org" doesn't define "@dfn" because it doesn't need it. But if it did, it could use a {{{dfn(...)}}} macro as above. > If not, would people like to add them? At one point, I suggested to make the "kbd" macro readily available for every export back-end. As such, the would be no need to define it in each document making use of it. However there was little interest in the Org ML. Also, there are some decisions to make. For example, the macro needs to be useful in every format supported by Org, and there are multiple ways to transcribe @kbd+@key in LaTeX parlance. It is not clear which one we should use and how configurable it should be. I'm not sure about @dfn. Org has a lightweight markup, i.e., _this_, which mean "underline" by default. Since it is ignored in the Texinfo export back-end, we might use it for @dfn. It probably would not be shocking if the term appeared as underlined in other formats. Note that this is all for default Texinfo back-end, which needs to be, as much as possible, compatible with other export back-ends (LaTeX, ASCII, HTML, ODT...). However, there is always the possibility to write another, dedicated, Texinfo back-end for Emacs manuals. This one could ignore compatibility altogether and use more specific constructs. This is, AFAIK, what the maintainer of Magit did for its manual. This could be discussed with people that actually write or maintain Emacs manuals. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738