From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 01:09:06 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87zhwn1wk6.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <83o9d5q1bi.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536707863 18149 195.159.176.226 (11 Sep 2018 23:17:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 23:17:43 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 12 01:17:38 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fzruc-0004cl-NM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 01:17:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59919 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzrwi-00063H-UB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 19:19:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46239) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzrvC-0005xg-Ae for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 19:18:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzro9-0005pw-Sg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 19:10:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p02-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5302::11]:33845) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzro9-0005o3-Ly for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 19:10:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1536707456; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=GhJHjBhCH6yvEmdQ65G4H4tXgeTE3OpT2neaXC6auBA=; b=U94UE0pcXSGJ+fM5jV2rpw3FcX5ssdIFoUpiUYQOMOtwGLcTGcV5W6NRTCHckwWhhx KN9unDaBrEXDal0hVlF8/yFzJ6ZSyGnurNaFIHKP5QYQmgpy/rz4bfPJvM3GXN2H7jnl 2Rx0Z6HlNyVVj1RGYrOjqp7hhB42g8U6WdSJHCAIY/px7WxcmO06FSlB3ZLACpKsMjpr +JmQqtzFtF7EwmSkhE/VhRrlvKblKC++8+AQK36Tr1l31kPKP8OWRTK7BB1F9c5n0szk pbsEXZvB+P2noh9H5mkljhHvuXshmAHhQ8fxOELlemBUbSwL7RaCTvVfa+6329MzOpgA metQ== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.0 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e03b99u8BNAqNv7 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Wed, 12 Sep 2018 01:10:52 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fzro4-000203-DV; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 01:10:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:36:01 -0400") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5302::11 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229684 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> I agree. What I want to happen after I make a region with ordinary >> Emacs commands, including C-SPC M-f and C-x C-x, is this: >> >> * It is active. >> * It is highlighted. >> * DEL does not delete it. >> * self-insert does not delete it. > > DEL has been deleting the active region (in the default config) for > a while now. And I'm pretty happy about that because it saves me > a key-binding. I think it's just as useful as confining undo and > search&replace to the active region: the active region is an extra > argument to the command. It makes the active region into something > comparable to the C-u prefix, a general way to structure the space of > our commands. VI has even more structure, and I wish Emacs moved more > in this direction. Aren't users going to need to set preferences as to what shall be limited or extended in which way to or by an highlighted region when more and more things fall under the paradigm of "doing something with a region just because it is highlighted and thus to be considered more active than when it is not"? Delete-selection-mode may count as an example of such a preference; a user not liking undo restricted to a region may be another. The next one might not like it that a non-highlighted region can be copied and deleted and abused for navigation and would rather have it entirely inert than only not so active. At least I would separate between "highlighted" and "active" first and go from there. Otherwise users who don't like this paradigm still won't be able to see what they have selected, and others can't see what they have selected unless they want to do something with it, or abort wanting to do something with it as soon as they've seen it.