A Debian suggestion

A Debian suggestion

[Robert Boyer]

Dearest Wonderful Debian Developers,

For all the great systems that Debian supports, here is a suggestion,
probably idiotic.

It might sometimes possibly be to the benefit of a user and developer for
the user to 'move on', possibly only temporarily, beyond the 'stable'
version of something.

It might be good if I could, for example,

  sudo apt-get install xacl2,
  sudo atp-get install xgcl,
  sudo apt-get install xsbcl, or
  sudo apt-get install xemacs

which command, without affecting my stable current whatever, would give me
access to the latest and greatest and perhaps riskiest
version of acl2, gcl, sbcl, or emacs.  From xwhatever I could then perhaps
send developers more useful bug reports.  There seems to be as much as a
two year delay in the movement of bug fixes to 'stable'.

I realize that I am way, way over my head.  I am extremely grateful to
Debian and its developers.  I do not
understand how they do what they do.  They have made one of the worst
nightmares of my life, software installation,
go away.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

With Highest Regards,

Bob

Re: A Debian suggestion

[Jean Louis]

* Robert Boyer <robertstephenboyer@gmail.com> [2024-12-07 15:45]:
>   sudo apt-get install xacl2,
>   sudo atp-get install xgcl,
>   sudo apt-get install xsbcl, or
>   sudo apt-get install xemacs

Each of the above can be installed from sources, using the latest latest development version.

For GNU Emacs;

$ git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git

Then enter into Emacs and see ./configure --help

then decide on any options, and run:

./configure

then 

make

and then you need not move Emacs anywhere, you can leave it in directory, just symlink src/emacs to some other location like ~/bin

and you will run latest Emacs.

-- 
Jean Louis

Re: A Debian suggestion

[Robert Boyer]

Thanks for your most helpful suggestions.  I know you are right, but I am a
fool, for which I can only apologize profusely.

> $ git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git

git clone totally sucks because, at least in my Chromebook configuration,
it turns off execute bits
and thereby makes 'make' a nightmare.  (I run on $100-$300 Lenovo
Chromebooks, with Gnu Linux, and I love
them, but despite there being 50,000,000, according to Google, teachers and
students using Chromebooks,
operations on Chromebooks are simply not yet as smooth as they might be on,
say, an Apple product.)

> Then enter into Emacs and see ./configure --help
> then decide on any options, and run:
> ./configure

I am too stupid to be entrusted with the selection of options.  Trust me.
Plus, I want to avoid learning about configuration options.

> make

Ah, there's the rub.  In my experience, something always goes wrong in the
'make' because I do not have this or that in the right place but I am too
dumb to figure out what to do next.  The conductor Leonard Berstein once
observed that the only difference between him and Beethoven is that
Beethoven knew what note came next.

> symlink src/emacs to some other location like ~/bin

I would not touch ~/bin for the world.  At least on the Chromebooks I use,
links, both hard and symbolic do not work well if at all.

With gravest apologies for being so old, senile, and stupid.

Thanks so very much,

Bob











On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 7:04 AM Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> wrote:
>
> * Robert Boyer <robertstephenboyer@gmail.com> [2024-12-07 15:45]:
> >   sudo apt-get install xacl2,
> >   sudo atp-get install xgcl,
> >   sudo apt-get install xsbcl, or
> >   sudo apt-get install xemacs
>
> Each of the above can be installed from sources, using the latest latest
development version.
>
> For GNU Emacs;
>
> $ git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git
>
> Then enter into Emacs and see ./configure --help
>
> then decide on any options, and run:
>
> ./configure
>
> then
>
> make
>
> and then you need not move Emacs anywhere, you can leave it in directory,
just symlink src/emacs to some other location like ~/bin
>
> and you will run latest Emacs.
>
> --
> Jean Louis

Re: A Debian suggestion

[tomas]

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On Sat, Dec 07, 2024 at 07:45:47AM -0600, Robert Boyer wrote:
> Thanks for your most helpful suggestions.  I know you are right, but I am a
> fool, for which I can only apologize profusely.
> 
> > $ git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git
> 
> git clone totally sucks because, at least in my Chromebook configuration,
> it turns off execute bits

[...]

I would try first to fix /that/. What file system are you working
with?

Cheers
-- 
t

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Re: A Debian suggestion

[Robert Boyer]

Dear Thomas,

> I would try first to fix /that/.

Agreed.  However, I can fix almost nothing that is os related. Too stupid,
etc.  I, like 50,000,000, according to Google, teachers and students am using
a Chromebook.  The Chromebook os supports a Debian Gnu Linux.  So that is
the file system I am working with, I guess, and I could not do anything
about it.

> What file system are you working with?

I have no idea, I am embarrassed to say, and I have no idea how to find out.

With highest regards,

Bob

P. S. With the 'alt shift i' command  I have sent hundreds of  email
messages about bugs and problems to Google, but they never, ever, not even
once have replied.  But many of the problems that I have reported seem to
have gradually gone away, so I suspect that the Google folks are working
hard on bug reports.

On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 9:37 AM <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 07, 2024 at 07:45:47AM -0600, Robert Boyer wrote:
> > Thanks for your most helpful suggestions.  I know you are right, but I
> am a
> > fool, for which I can only apologize profusely.
> >
> > > $ git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git
> >
> > git clone totally sucks because, at least in my Chromebook configuration,
> > it turns off execute bits
>
> [...]
>
> I would try first to fix /that/. What file system are you working
> with?
>
> Cheers
> --
> t
>

Re: A Debian suggestion

[Michel Verdier]

On 2024-12-08, Robert Boyer wrote:

>> What file system are you working with?
>
> I have no idea, I am embarrassed to say, and I have no idea how to find out.

Provide us the output of

  mount

Re: A Debian suggestion

[Michel Verdier]

On 2024-12-07, Robert Boyer wrote:

> It might sometimes possibly be to the benefit of a user and developer for
> the user to 'move on', possibly only temporarily, beyond the 'stable'
> version of something.

Debian calls it "stable-backports" or "bookworm-backports". And if it is
not enough you have to go to "testing".

> It might be good if I could, for example,
>
>   sudo apt-get install xacl2,
>   sudo atp-get install xgcl,
>   sudo apt-get install xsbcl, or
>   sudo apt-get install xemacs

(you should use apt and not apt-get)
If you add bookworm-backports to your sources you can do

   sudo apt -t bookworm-backports install ...

But xemacs21 version is 21.4.24-11 with no backports
You can check that on
https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all&searchon=names&keywords=xemacs

Re: A Debian suggestion

[Camm Maguire]

Greetings, and thank you so much for your useful feedback!  Even more,
may I commend you on your gentility, a quality nearly extinct in our era
but most appreciated by geezers like me who remember it.

What you seek already exists.  May I direct you to the man page of
apt-preferences likely installed on your system.

The short version is to

1) edit /etc/apt/sources.list as root (see below)
2) edit or create /etc/apt/preferences file  as root (see belos)
3) sudo apt-get update
4) sudo apt-get -t unstable install .....

/etc/apt/sources.list should include the line:

deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib non-free-firmware

/etc/apt/preferences should be something like

=============================================================================
Package: *
Pin: release a=stable
Pin-Priority: 900

Package: *
Pin: release a=unstable
Pin-Priority: 10
=============================================================================

You can add the flag --dry-run to the apt commands to see what they
would do before actually executing, which I recommend.

Please note that this will also bring in the minimum number of libraries
from unstable to run your requested program, which may affect the
behavior of other programs using those same libraries.

If you want to run a package from unstable without touching your
currently installed stable system at all, which to me is cleaner, I
highly recommend the very simple debootstrap/schroot installation I
recommended earlier.  This is literally as simple as the 4 commands
outlined above, and will give you access to whatever bleeding edge
version you desire in a safe sandbox that will leave your surrounding
system untouched.  Please feel free to ask again for these steps if you
would like to choose this route.

Take care,

Robert Boyer <robertstephenboyer@gmail.com> writes:

> Dearest Wonderful Debian Developers,
>
> For all the great systems that Debian supports, here is a suggestion, probably idiotic.
>
> It might sometimes possibly be to the benefit of a user and developer for the user to 'move on', possibly only temporarily, beyond the 'stable' version of
> something.
>
> It might be good if I could, for example,
>
>   sudo apt-get install xacl2,
>   sudo atp-get install xgcl,
>   sudo apt-get install xsbcl, or
>   sudo apt-get install xemacs
>
> which command, without affecting my stable current whatever, would give me access to the latest and greatest and perhaps riskiest
> version of acl2, gcl, sbcl, or emacs.  From xwhatever I could then perhaps send developers more useful bug reports.  There seems to be as much as a two year
> delay in the movement of bug fixes to 'stable'.
>
> I realize that I am way, way over my head.  I am extremely grateful to Debian and its developers.  I do not
> understand how they do what they do.  They have made one of the worst nightmares of my life, software installation,
> go away.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.
>
> With Highest Regards,
>
> Bob
>

-- 
Camm Maguire			     		    camm@maguirefamily.org
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah