From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: doc elisp intro cross reference fixes Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:28:34 +0200 Organization: JURTA Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <87y8u2uv6l.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <87wua28zux.fsf@zip.com.au> <87ad6vdsxi.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1069918416 7460 80.91.224.253 (27 Nov 2003 07:33:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:33:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 27 08:33:34 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1APGec-0006R5-00 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:33:34 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1APGeb-0003gy-00 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:33:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1APHaH-00040U-Om for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:33:09 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1APHZs-0003t8-UJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:32:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1APHZJ-0003ZJ-C3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:32:40 -0500 Original-Received: from [64.246.52.22] (helo=ns5.tangramltd.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1APHZI-0003Z3-Vx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:32:09 -0500 Original-Received: from 80-235-32-239-dsl.mus.estpak.ee ([80.235.32.239] helo=mail.jurta.org) by ns5.tangramltd.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APGbo-0003uc-GC; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:30:40 +0200 Original-To: Per Abrahamsen In-Reply-To: (Per Abrahamsen's message of "Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:03:57 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns5.tangramltd.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jurta.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18159 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18159 Per Abrahamsen writes: > On the other hand, it should also be clear that > > 1) programmers don't understand the distinction > > I spend a lot of time fixing removing or adding "*" from Gnus options, > most other developers seemed to either add it always or never. Even > to the degree of adding or removing * from old code so everything was > the same. > > 2) programmers can't judge when an option is something users would > want to change as part of normal use I just grepped the emacs/lisp/ file tree and results clearly demonstrate that programmers use * quite randomly. There are even 24 constants (defconst) and 33 faces (defface) with * in their docstrings! And most defvars with * undoubtedly should be changed to defcustom. All this indicate that * for its current purpose is a useless feature. I want to note also that currently there are many defvar variables that are intended for customization but have no * in their docstrings. Their values are either too complicated or by some other reasons they are not suited for interactive modification and are intended for change from Lisp programs (mostly in .emacs). There should be some way to distinguish them from internal variables (whose only purpose is to communicate global values between functions and some other purely internal purpose). I suppose that there is such implicit convention already exists that internal variables should have no docstrings. Is it true? -- http://www.jurta.org/emacs/