From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dieter Wilhelm Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Hard to switch from vi Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:00:23 +0200 Organization: The Church of Emacs Message-ID: <87y7r9tme0.fsf@hans.local.net> References: <45299CB0.5090003@speakeasy.net> <4529A0E4.60403@charter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1161464464 32276 80.91.229.2 (21 Oct 2006 21:01:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:01:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 21 23:01:04 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbNxi-00013Y-9X for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:00:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbNxh-0004Fd-Vb for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:00:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GbNxT-0004AE-9o for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:00:43 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GbNxQ-00042F-KM for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:00:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbNxQ-00041i-C8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:00:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [212.227.126.188] (helo=moutng.kundenserver.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GbNxP-00053N-NZ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:00:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [84.167.64.64] (helo=duenenhof-wilhelm.de) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML29c-1GbNxJ2JfO-000070; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:00:36 +0200 Original-Received: by duenenhof-wilhelm.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BD18C756B2; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:00:23 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: Wen Weng In-Reply-To: (Wen Weng's message of "Mon\, 09 Oct 2006 21\:22\:39 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d7ab225b98a136e1c2910381f940ecb9 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:38166 Archived-At: Wen Weng writes: >> >> First, I don't know of any comparison of the number of keystrokes. > Well, that's just my experience so far after one week of using emacs. >> Secondly, other things are much more important. >> > Actually, the number of keystrokes is number one importance to me and > to a lot of people, I guess. >> There are only two editors. First of all, I'm an Emacs user but some years ago I was also fascinated with the editing approach of vi. (I think that it is the only remaining MODE editor still in use.) First I found out that vi is no match for Emacs--vim is--but keep in mind that I'm writing here mainly from the point of view of editing and keystrokes ;-). I practised vim for approximately half a year quite intensively, till I realised that even with more practise this hadn't had accelerated my editing in comparison to Emacs. I used the following table [*] comparing the necessary keystrokes. Please take it with a grain of salt, the table is not very scientific but I think it shows that Emacs--in the worst case--does not look so bad in comparison to vim's keystrokes. When you take into consideration that you often have to switch the modes and forced to add ESC (where you have to leave the home position, or C-[) and switching back to the editing mode, I think it is a clear draw 8-). No, I can't proof it with a stop watch, probably very few could because it takes so (very) long to become really proficient in the methodologies around the respective keyboard-maps, but still, this should be food for thought. If you intend to use the other fast editor stay with vim, if you intend to use an additional operating system switch to Emacs. [*] (then I did not know about table.el unfortunately 8-) ============================== prerequisites: 1.) German keyboard layout 2.) Operating the modifier keys with thumb or outer palm for speed reason 3.) Subjective guess of shortcut commonness (first column) COMMON STUFF: P - keys input keys normal keys remark 3 M-digit 2 C-o 3 digit 1 inserting only ONE digit MOVEMENT 3 M-f 2 S-right 2+1 w/W 1+1 vim: forward WORD or word! 3 M-b 2 S-left 2+1 b/B 1+1 vim: forward WORD or word! M-fb 3 e 1 M-bf 3 ge 2 C-f 2 right 1+2 l 1 C-b 2 left 1+2 h 1 C-a 2 pos1 1+2 0 1 2 M-m 2 C-o,^ 3 ^ 1 2 M-a 2 C-o,{ 4 { 2 2 M-e 2 C-o,} 4 } 2 MARKING 2 C-SPACE 2 ma 2 2 C-uSPC 3 `` 3 SEARCHING 3 C-s,RET 4 f/F 1+1 4 /,RET 4 C-s 2 f 1 emacs do some other C-command 2 C-l 2 z. 2 3 C-x,o 4 C-ow,n 5 C-ww 3 TYPOS 2 accents 2 C-k,xx 5 iC-k,xx 6 3 M-/ 2 C-n|p 2 iC-n|p 3 3 C-t 2 deldel 4+2 hxp 3 2 C-_ 2 C-o,u 3 u 1 3 C-y 2 p/P 1 2 M-y 2 C-r,"xp 6 "xp 4 2 M-l 2 2 M-c 2 ~ 1 2 M-t 2 dwbp 4 1 C-xt 3 :m+ 3 2 C-o 2 O 2 start editing new line 2 C-ao 3 O,ESC 3 insert an empty line DELETION 2 C-w 2 d`a 4 2 C-d 2 del 1+2 x 1 3 BSP 1 X 2 3 M-BS 2 C-w 2 db|B 2+1 3 M-D 2 C-odw 4 dw|W 2+1 3 C-k 2 C-o,D 4 D 2 3 M-0,C-k 5 C-ou 3 C-u 2 The following line is redundant now its C-S-BKS 3 2 C-a,C-k 5 C-odd 5 dd 2 1 C-x,DEL 4 d} 2 1 M-k 2 d{ 2 COPYING C-k,C-y 5 Y 2 C-a,C-k,C-y8 yy 2 FORMATTING 1 M-^ 2 gJ 3 Join lines without whitespace 2 C-a,TAB 4 C-t 2 M-^ 2 C-d 2 1 C-M-\ 4 vap> 4 C-x,TAB 4 2 M-u 2 guw 3 M--u 3 gub 3 M-bu 3 vawu 4 2 M-q 2 vapgq 5 COMMANDS 3 C-h,a 4 :h 3 2 M-xp 3 @: 4 C-z 2 . 1 1 C-xc 3+1 :xa 4 2 C-x,` 5 :cn 4 FILES and BUFFERS 2 C-x,3 4 C-wv 3 2 C-x,2 4 :sp 4 3 C-xf 3 :e 3 1 C-x,{|} 5 C-w,>|< 5 1 C-x,+|- 4 C-w,+|- 4 2 C-xs 3 :w 3 1 C-x,s 4 :xa 4 2 C-xb 3 :ls 4 2 C-x,bRET5 :bn 4 1 C-x,4bRET6 C-w^ 3 3 C-x,o 4 C-ww 3 3 M-d,C-x,o7 C-wh 3 2 C-x,4f 5 C-w 2 C-x,1 4 C-w,o 4 2 C-x,k 4 :q 3 1 C-xr 3 :vie -- Best wishes H. Dieter Wilhelm Darmstadt, Germany