From: Bastien <bzg@altern.org>
To: "Juanma Barranquero" <lekktu@gmail.com>
Cc: Emacs Devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Emacs Bazaar repository
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:04:28 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87y78e4xoz.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <f7ccd24b0803190242p3a7e18ebueb6feee2618a85d4@mail.gmail.com> (Juanma Barranquero's message of "Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:42:44 +0100")
"Juanma Barranquero" <lekktu@gmail.com> writes:
>> The assumption in the discussion so far has been namely this one: it is
>> possible to use a dVCS instead of the current CVS without switching to a
>> new project workflow. Even better: most dVCS are so flexible that you
>> can adapt your project workflow _after_ you start using one of them.
>
> This is one assumption. The other one is that all dVCS (or at least,
> the three or four "major" ones) are largely equivalent. Both seem to
> be false at this moment.
They are not equivalent in terms of performance, but I think the
assumption was more precisely that all dVCS are equivalent in terms of
their ability to adapt to any workflow. This assumption is true IMO.
> Until now the Emacs model has been that everyone with write access is
> trusted to display some common sense, and it has worked quite well.
Sure, thanks to people on this mailing list!
> Limiting who can write to the canonical repository and establishing
> that kind of hierarchy seems like fixing a non-existent problem.
I didn't want to fix problems in the current workflow.
One of the benefits of using a dVCS is that you can envision different
workflows. If everybody were okay with bzr then there would be no point
in trying to imagine other workflows before using the new dVCS. But
since bzr has some annoying shortcomings, maybe it is useful to be sure
that everyone wants to stick to the current workflow before avoiding bzr
because of its inability to preserve this workflow...
One of the shortcomings of the current workflow is this one: some piece
of code in Emacs is actively developped outside of the Emacs CVS (Gnus,
ERC, Org, etc.) Since these pieces are also part of Emacs, any change
on them in the Emacs CVS requires someone to report the changes in the
local, independant repository of the module. This is double work, and
such energy could be spared with the "Lieutenant" topology previously
described.
> As you say, it is a social issue. If I do a pervasive change in ido or
> cua, I *will* send it to Kim, for example; but I don't want to have to
> pass through someone to fix a typo or correct a silly oversight.
I don't propose to sparse the code into areas where only one developer
can make changes. I propose to think about what a _distributed_ VCS
would be really useful for as a collective tool, in hope that such a
discussion might give directions in the evaluation of bzr.
(Of course, a dVCS is already useful from an individual point of view:
being able to commit locally, to work on several local branches, all
this means it's already worth using a dVCS. But bzr might also be
useful as a collective tool.)
> Let's not create bureaucracy until we know we need it.
Well, I believe the real benefit of a dVCS is precisely to avoid
bureaucracy -- provided that you can adapt the tool to the way people
want to work together with it, and this requires some discussion.
--
Bastien
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-03-19 14:04 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 236+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-03-12 23:41 Emacs Bazaar repository Jason Earl
2008-03-13 1:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-13 1:52 ` dhruva
2008-03-13 2:26 ` Bastien
2008-03-13 2:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-13 3:12 ` dhruva
2008-03-13 4:06 ` Karl Fogel
2008-03-13 4:11 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-29 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-13 15:30 ` Karl Fogel
2008-03-13 15:58 ` dhruva
2008-03-13 16:50 ` Jason Earl
2008-03-13 20:18 ` How to spell "commit" [was: bikeshedding bzr (or similar) :] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-13 4:09 ` Emacs Bazaar repository Karl Fogel
2008-03-13 4:15 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-13 4:30 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-14 1:11 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-14 1:51 ` Jason Earl
2008-03-14 5:10 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-13 9:58 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-13 22:13 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-14 10:27 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 10:36 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-13 5:08 ` Jason Earl
2008-03-13 10:39 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-13 14:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-13 4:19 ` Eric Hanchrow
2008-03-13 5:20 ` Jason Earl
2008-03-13 8:04 ` dhruva
2008-03-13 9:04 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-03-13 9:41 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-13 12:08 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-03-13 23:46 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-14 2:52 ` dhruva
2008-03-14 3:00 ` Jason Earl
2008-03-14 3:03 ` Martin Pool
2008-03-14 5:36 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-14 7:03 ` Martin Pool
2008-03-15 4:44 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-14 10:30 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 15:02 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-03-13 11:20 ` James Westby
2008-03-13 16:37 ` Jason Earl
2008-03-13 7:43 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-03-13 8:49 ` Jason Earl
2008-03-13 9:07 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-03-13 13:11 ` Aaron Bentley
2008-03-13 11:43 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-13 11:55 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-14 9:58 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-03-14 10:42 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 12:24 ` Matthieu Moy
[not found] ` <8562053f49b38b1584b86e1e4d1ec6e6, vpqbq5htrwx.fsf@bauges.imag.fr>
2008-03-14 12:42 ` David Ingamells
2008-03-14 13:05 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-03-14 8:23 ` John Arbash Meinel
2008-03-14 13:32 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 13:39 ` James Westby
2008-03-14 14:13 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-03-14 14:30 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 14:37 ` Nicholas Allen
2008-03-14 16:17 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-14 16:32 ` Daniel Mark Watkins
2008-03-14 15:15 ` David Allouche
2008-03-14 15:21 ` James Westby
2008-03-14 15:43 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-03-14 13:35 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-14 13:44 ` James Westby
2008-03-14 13:59 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-14 14:09 ` James Westby
2008-03-14 14:29 ` Nicholas Allen
2008-03-15 0:39 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-15 10:30 ` James Westby
2008-03-15 12:30 ` James Westby
2008-03-14 23:34 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-17 10:41 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-03-17 12:39 ` Sergei Organov
2008-03-18 1:48 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-18 2:13 ` dhruva
2008-03-18 4:03 ` Karl Fogel
2008-03-18 5:00 ` dhruva
2008-03-18 5:40 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-18 9:17 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-18 10:00 ` dhruva
2008-03-19 5:44 ` Bastien
2008-03-19 9:42 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-19 14:04 ` Bastien [this message]
2008-03-19 14:49 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-19 15:30 ` Bastien
2008-03-29 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-18 16:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-18 18:15 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-20 14:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-20 14:10 ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-20 15:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-20 20:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-03-21 12:51 ` dhruva
2008-03-29 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-18 19:31 ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-18 19:27 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-18 20:05 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-18 20:26 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-03-22 4:23 ` Michael Olson
2008-03-22 11:18 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-03-24 6:19 ` Michael Olson
2008-03-25 9:36 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-03-20 1:04 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-18 20:58 ` Brian Cully
2008-03-18 21:13 ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-18 21:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-18 22:02 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-19 1:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-18 23:18 ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-18 23:46 ` Nick Roberts
2008-03-19 0:13 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-19 0:17 ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-19 1:14 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-19 0:12 ` Johannes Weiner
2008-03-26 7:56 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-27 22:22 ` Johannes Weiner
2008-03-29 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-14 12:56 ` dhruva
2008-03-14 13:10 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-14 13:23 ` dhruva
2008-03-14 13:26 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 14:19 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-03-14 14:29 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-15 0:43 ` Jonathan Rockway
2008-03-15 14:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-03-15 15:06 ` dhruva
2008-03-15 0:44 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-17 10:43 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-03-14 22:26 ` Martin Geisler
2008-03-15 12:09 ` dhruva
2008-03-15 21:32 ` Martin Geisler
2008-03-25 21:46 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-03-19 10:50 ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-14 13:03 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 14:24 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-03-14 14:41 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 14:46 ` Jelmer Vernooij
2008-03-14 15:15 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-15 0:49 ` Harald Meland
2008-03-14 18:04 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-14 19:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-14 19:47 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 20:01 ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-14 20:06 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 21:43 ` Karl Fogel
2008-03-15 0:00 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-13 20:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-03-14 10:23 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 3:56 ` Forest Bond
2008-03-14 10:32 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 11:28 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-14 22:23 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-14 23:49 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-14 4:52 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-14 6:21 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-14 6:33 ` Alexander Belchenko
2008-03-14 7:16 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-14 9:18 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-14 10:08 ` Matthew D. Fuller
2008-03-14 10:14 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-19 16:31 ` Nicholas Allen
2008-03-14 10:35 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 10:37 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 11:30 ` Matt Nordhoff
2008-03-29 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-13 13:07 ` Andrea Russo
2008-03-14 9:16 ` Nicholas Allen
2008-03-13 14:18 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 18:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-14 18:35 ` Jason Earl
2008-03-14 18:51 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 19:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-14 19:32 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-14 20:12 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-14 18:31 ` Goffredo Baroncelli
2008-03-16 18:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-16 19:53 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-17 15:00 ` Michael Haggerty
2008-03-17 16:37 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-16 21:47 ` Toshio Kuratomi
2008-03-18 15:43 ` Emacs repository benchmark: bzr and git Teemu Likonen
2008-03-18 15:51 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-18 16:05 ` dhruva
2008-03-19 2:53 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-27 1:32 ` Jonathan Lange
2008-03-27 2:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-27 2:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-27 11:58 ` dhruva
2008-03-27 13:59 ` Vincent Ladeuil
2008-03-29 1:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-29 1:30 ` James Westby
2008-03-29 3:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-29 4:06 ` James Westby
2008-03-29 4:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-29 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-29 4:34 ` David Cournapeau
2008-03-31 0:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-29 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-29 9:19 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-29 9:58 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-29 10:13 ` dhruva
2008-03-29 10:26 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-31 0:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-29 14:55 ` Randal L. Schwartz
2008-03-29 16:35 ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-03-29 18:13 ` tomas
2008-03-29 21:05 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-30 5:49 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-30 5:49 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-30 6:25 ` Jonathan Rockway
2008-03-30 19:56 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-31 0:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-18 16:19 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-03-19 9:43 ` Teemu Likonen
2008-03-18 16:02 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-03-18 16:33 ` dhruva
2008-03-18 18:41 ` Jonathan Corbet
2008-03-19 1:40 ` dhruva
2008-03-18 21:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-03-18 17:11 ` Teemu Likonen
2008-03-18 17:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-18 18:20 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-18 16:43 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-18 19:19 ` Teemu Likonen
2008-03-18 20:22 ` James Westby
2008-03-19 11:37 ` Emacs repository benchmark: bzr and git (rerun) Teemu Likonen
2008-03-19 12:17 ` James Westby
2008-03-19 22:39 ` Robert Collins
2008-03-19 16:41 ` Teemu Likonen
2008-03-22 17:59 ` Emacs Bazaar repository Stefan Monnier
2008-03-22 19:59 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-24 7:53 ` Christian Faulhammer
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