From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Yet another bootstrap failure: Required feature `esh-groups' was not provided Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:32:49 +0900 Message-ID: <87y75gri3y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20080606155915.GA3953@muc.de> <20080606203541.GA1741@muc.de> <20080607095024.GC1812@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1212877246 2778 80.91.229.12 (7 Jun 2008 22:20:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 22:20:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 08 00:21:29 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K56mt-0000a5-V5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:21:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44941 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K56m6-0008D3-IJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:20:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K56m1-0008By-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:20:33 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K56lx-000896-Jf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:20:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46990 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K56lx-000893-CD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:20:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:36727) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K56ln-0007WQ-K5; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:20:19 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D911535AF; Sun, 8 Jun 2008 07:20:18 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C3EF81A25C3; Sun, 8 Jun 2008 07:32:49 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM ?bug? under XEmacs 21.5.21 (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:98640 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > None of the projects I'm involved with that have something similar to > "bootstrap" use the kind of ``fire at will'' commit policy we use in > Emacs. Those other projects all have some kind of mandatory > review-before-commit policy for all but a few extremely trusted > developers. At peer review time, problems can be detected before they > do any harm. Interesting theory. However, the way it actually works in some projects is that the review-before-commit policy is mandatory for the extremely trusted developers, too. They're not trusted to do it right the first time, they're trusted to get it right by the time they commit. The difference between them and the common herd is that they are trusted to know when they need peer review (changes in the build process are one example), and when they can review their own code (straightforward bug fixes are most common). Eg, Python has at least as many people who can commit on their own responsibility as Emacs does, but build breakage on the half-dozen "common" platforms is rare[1], and I've never seen threads on regressions in the build for parts of the project implemented in Python. The practice of having trusted developers do self-review is enabled by infrastructure including a test suite containing about 500 files and a "buildbot" network. Footnotes: [1] Admittedly, they typically lag about 3 years on supporting Microsoft "native" compilers. I can understand that, though.