From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jeremiah Dodds Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: proposal to make null string handling more emacs-y Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 23:59:24 -0400 Message-ID: <87y5phu8o3.fsf@destructor.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> References: <83d36wfcf1.fsf@gnu.org> <834ns7g9r8.fsf@gnu.org> <87ty06nnxp.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87vckmm2z7.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ehr9vp0r.fsf@destructor.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <87ehr9n8nh.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1335499287 26487 80.91.229.3 (27 Apr 2012 04:01:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 04:01:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 06:01:27 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SNcN3-00031F-DT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 06:01:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44283 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SNcN2-0002MD-Nd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:01:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52787) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SNcN0-0002M1-2x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:01:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SNcMy-0008Qr-4C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:01:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-iy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:50295) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SNcMx-0008OA-Sn; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:01:20 -0400 Original-Received: by iajr24 with SMTP id r24so572093iaj.0 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:01:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=8uyBInHUFygR5htXXuDN9oeAfy9SXV3sVsjeDRNemoI=; b=S3vtoVMnS+Hm+zkvL+44FD+SoYqDOA//+zAGq8jQBZ+HjlEih377yOj6rjyEu5Tiwq OGaLGvqCVBO6zkYt8Wu+ke47GpFZbBtYwjUTrC1cQEoZDrOx1wZdE7qMDXD6nABAUxrF iYEbvNqH7M9phVQW9azCJP8LBzhzPFkyvOG0kzBiIx+VDEeLxp1+8PFrhSyDXUjGB3hL TltdCr60tG9PPCWyGMWpc0Hx5sxeo8I9qn+kj4Vqlm6sBmW14hUsvk3fHgvSbHQ33skr fLmz1S6SzD0aKEL9eNjk/xeAvUoCIvZwFUrvRz5hjiL1z49Au/JSRDTqAfl35KIgcCZV K+Ow== Original-Received: by 10.50.45.231 with SMTP id q7mr486384igm.42.1335499277273; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from destructor (cpe-24-165-194-119.neo.res.rr.com. [24.165.194.119]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ke7sm2379158igc.10.2012.04.26.21.01.15 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:01:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87ehr9n8nh.fsf@catnip.gol.com> (Miles Bader's message of "Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:41:38 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.210.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:150078 Archived-At: Miles Bader writes: > Jeremiah Dodds writes: >>>> and the downside is that some user is sitting there unable to start >>>> Emacs because two required packages -- packages that may be used only >>>> on demand or not at all -- are arguing over some runtime value. >>>> That's a big downside. >>> >>> WTF do you keep going on about Emacs startup? >> >> I believe this is because it seems that the "uh-oh i got a nil when I >> expected a string" error commonly happens on emacs startup, confusing >> new users, presumably after loading some big bunch of elisp. > > Does it? I don't think I've _ever_ seen that error at startup (though > I've certainly had errors during startup)... > > -miles It's happened to me enough times over the course of the decade or so that I've been using emacs to remember it. I know that the first few times it happened, I was pretty green and got really confused for a while. Nowadays, I know how to figure out wtf is going on. Unfortunately I don't remember the specifics of what triggered the error for any of the times I ran into the issue.