From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Using cl in rst.el and elsewhere Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 15:47:48 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87y5o41p8b.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <30996.1335792548@eskebo.merten-home.homelinux.org> <7259.1336421206@theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org> <6563.1338323400@theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org> <5656.1338405342@theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org> <607.1338631547@eskebo.merten-home.homelinux.org> <13152.1338730902@eskebo.merten-home.homelinux.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1338731289 12308 80.91.229.3 (3 Jun 2012 13:48:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 13:48:09 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 03 15:48:08 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SbBA5-0001s6-Jm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 15:48:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44254 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SbBA5-0002a8-Dv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:48:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59884) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SbBA2-0002Xt-IK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:48:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SbBA0-0002IF-Di for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:48:02 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:56213) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SbBA0-0002HH-6e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:48:00 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SbB9y-0001lV-18 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 15:47:58 +0200 Original-Received: from 81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com ([81.202.16.46]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 15:47:57 +0200 Original-Received: from pjb by 81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 15:47:57 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 35 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:OGVhMTZmYmVhYTVmYjEzZTQyZmVjMmNhMjQ3Zjk3ZjQ0NTUyYmJkYg== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:150756 Archived-At: Stefan Merten writes: > Today Leo wrote: >> We are already using CLOS (in the form of EIEIO), so the elisp lib cl.el >> really has been unfairly treated for such a long time because it was put >> into emacs too ahead of time and because of rms's dislike of CL (the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> language). > > Ah, I see. Indeed this whole things really smells a lot like a > political decision like this. > >> Also putting a cl- in front of everything merely reminds >> people of Common Lisp. Can we just think of cl.el as some good ideas >> stolen from Common Lisp and forget about it hereafter. > > +1 > > More and more functional elements enter other programming languages - > see Perl, Python, Scala, upcoming Java versions, ... Historically Lisp > is the first functional programming language. > > Still AFAICS Emacs Lisp lacks something simple like `reduce'. Well, to > make it worse: It *is* there - in cl.el. But you may not use it. This > is really weird... > > Something similar applies to `defstruct'. Some standard mechanism to > group a bunch of attributes would be really helpful - beyond abusing > positions in lists for this. Am I missing something here? Yes, it's so ridiculous, it's comical. -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ A bad day in () is better than a good day in {}.