From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: aurelien@replicant.io (=?utf-8?Q?Aur=C3=A9lien_DESBRI=C3=88RES?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs history, and "Is Emacs difficult to learn?" Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:31:30 -0600 Message-ID: <87y58oysh9.fsf@replicant.replicant> References: <87y58pplcp.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1375198989 27532 80.91.229.3 (30 Jul 2013 15:43:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:43:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Luca Ferrari Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 30 17:43:09 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V4C4m-000241-QB for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:43:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46152 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V4C4m-0003LP-E7 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:43:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41874) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V44IN-0002dP-CG for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:24:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V44IH-00047Z-C2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:24:35 -0400 Original-Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:51108) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V44IG-00047I-Gz for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:24:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mfilter19-d.gandi.net (mfilter19-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.147]) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00818A80DF; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:24:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter19-d.gandi.net Original-Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]) by mfilter19-d.gandi.net (mfilter19-d.gandi.net [10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i7aqdfg0PLVM; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:24:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Originating-IP: 90.37.87.71 Original-Received: from replicant.replicant (AMarseille-157-1-80-71.w90-37.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.37.87.71]) (Authenticated sender: aurelien@replicant.io) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A9BBEA80CD; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:24:14 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Luca Ferrari's message of "Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:27:55 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 217.70.183.195 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:42:51 -0400 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:92559 Archived-At: Luca Ferrari writes: > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Rustom Mody wrot= e: >> On Monday, July 29, 2013 8:16:05 PM UTC+5:30, Jambunathan K wrote: >>> Personally, my first love with Emacs was when someone showed M-q to me >>> and the most uglily indented text aligned nicely between the margins. >> >> I started using emacs in the early 90s because I wanted something >> better than an interactive shell for teaching interaction with a >> (pre)haskell interpreter. Dunno if comint mode existed then -- I at >> least did not know about it. >> Wrote my own mode which used to crash not just emacs but even linux >> in interesting ways! Couple of years later, found scheme-mode >> written on top of comint and search-n-replaced it for my purposes. >> > > I started using Emacs because (i) I hated vi with a passion, since it > was the _only_ editor university was teaching us and I was wondering > why and (ii) because I found it incredibly faster than more other > editors. For instance, while doing my master degree thesis, a latex > document that resulted in almost 300 pages, emacs was able to le tme > search forward and backward incrementally, while other editors, even > those latex-branded, were sinking parsing such a large document. > Therefore I decided Emacs had to be my editor of choice, and then I > used to program almost everything I had in almost every language > ranging from java, perl, php, etc. > > I teach some web stuff in high school, and I'd love students use emacs > but I have to face that students are not living a point and click > generation and they do not understand the real power of using > keystrokes. Moreover, as already said, they are brain damaged and this > does not help. To learn Emacs (as to learn anything else) you need > attitude. > > > > >> I am frequently asked to use something more 'modern/reasonable' etc than= emacs (eclipse/sublime-text etc). >> > > This is something happens to me too: my colleagues often look at me > like a nerd because I don't use something more eye-candy like > ultraedit/eclipse/netbeans/whatever. But I feel comfortable with my > keys and the speed of emacs. > > There are however a few places where Emacs should get a real improvement: > - IDE-like support and code autocompletion (cedet and autocomplete are > very helpful, but there is still a gap with some major IDEs) > - prebuilt and preconfigured packages: often configuring emacs is a quite= tricky > - inclusion in base systems: the first thing I often do when > installing a new system is to add emacs since it is rarely used as a > default editor. > > Luca > > GNU Emacs is an Extensible Editor. Extensible (word) have it's importance in the way that the limit with GNU Emacs is you. GNU Emacs is not difficult to learn and by the way it will teach you Computer Sciences. C-h i have been be and is at this time my best teacher! Thanks Richard and all maintainer for that great tool. P.S. : try GNU Emacs out of X you will discover and OS in the OS ;-) --=20 Aur=C3=A9lien DESBRI=C3=88RES Run free! Run GNU.ORG