From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs terminology (not again!?) [was: Apologia for bzr] Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 18:55:24 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87y52duqcz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <877gact76s.fsf@gnu.org> <34c8c13b-c5c6-4e5a-9248-b09d5d1936da@default> <87eh4hkq6c.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83y52dk82n.fsf@gnu.org> <87zjmtwqtv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87ob391cgf.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390067748 26200 80.91.229.3 (18 Jan 2014 17:55:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 17:55:48 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 18 18:55:55 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W4a7e-0001Gd-MF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 18:55:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43845 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W4a7e-0000R7-6a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:55:54 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59838) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W4a7W-0000Qw-Ps for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:55:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W4a7R-0004Ek-GE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:55:46 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:37083) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W4a7R-0004Eg-90 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:55:41 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W4a7Q-00017U-Ds for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 18:55:40 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f4597d.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.244.89.125]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 18:55:40 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f4597d.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 18:55:40 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 31 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f4597d.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:u8bswkw9f2Hz3teXDwAT4ktdbCk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:168702 Archived-At: Óscar Fuentes writes: > David Kastrup writes: > >> That's a red herring. What people are looking for are not editors that >> are easy to learn, but editors that can be used without learning >> anything at all. > > People are looking for editors that work similar enough to those that > they already know. > > For most people, the *promise* of improved efficiency is not credible > enough to invest the required time to learn Emacs. I'm not convinced that this should overly influence our priorities. It's like trying to make a piano appealing to iPod users. Both are used for producing music. What _should_ be making us think about our priorities is when we lose the input of heavy Emacs users like RMS, Ben Wing, Nix, to Repetitive Strain Injury, and it appears like users of other editors are not affected to a similar degree. No idea about the actual numbers, though. If they turned out to be more than just anecdotal, that would at least provide an incentive for long-term replanning of the default keybindings to be offered. To me, that would carry more weight than "everybody else does x". -- David Kastrup