From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Bremner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 08:28:12 -0400 Message-ID: <87y4cof0kj.fsf@zancas.localnet> References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1450700966 10002 80.91.229.3 (21 Dec 2015 12:29:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:29:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 22213@debbugs.gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 21 13:29:17 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzaR-0004sy-BF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:29:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44468 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzaQ-0002EV-IB for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:29:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51085) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzaN-0002EO-CJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:29:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzaI-0000KH-HB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:29:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:51008) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzaI-0000KB-Ec for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:29:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzaI-0003ts-AB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:29:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: David Bremner Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145070090614943 (code B ref 22213); Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:29:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2015 12:28:26 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58610 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzZi-0003sw-8u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:28:26 -0500 Original-Received: from fethera.tethera.net ([198.245.60.197]:49080) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzZg-0003sm-P2 for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:28:25 -0500 Original-Received: from remotemail by fethera.tethera.net with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzZa-0006P8-7C; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:28:18 -0500 Original-Received: (nullmailer pid 17902 invoked by uid 1000); Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:28:22 -0000 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Notmuch/0.21+7~g55fb7da (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.5.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:110238 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Glenn Morris writes: > David Bremner wrote: > >> It changes the problem to one of managing timestamps of files. This is >> probably easier than the current situation, but not completely trivial, >> since e.g. both git checkout and build systems that copy files will >> modify timestamps. > > Point taken about VCS checkouts. Is that a case you need to deal with? It seems pretty common for multi-file packages to have some kind of staging process (e.g. "make elpa") in their build process (at least company-mode, circe, magit, and projectile all do). This means the production of tarball itself has timestamps based the VCS checkout. Of course, in this case one could push the responsibility back onto the package authors, but toolchain fixes seem better if possible (where emacs is the toolchain here). > I was thinking of rebuilding a binary package from a given > source tarfile. But surely a build system must preserve source file > timestamps, for the sake of make? They only need to be preserved in a limited way to satisfy make; for example in the staging process above, the copied files are not examined by make after copying. > 1) Store no timestamp in the loaddefs file, and use the modtime of the > loaddefs file instead. In fact, I'm not sure why we don't just do it > this way... [snips] > I'm guessing you don't care about in-place updating of a pre-existing > loaddefs after modifying the inputs, so 1) would be fine? Right, personally I think the installed files, including any generated loaddefs (I'm guessing you're using loaddefs in a generic sense, independent of the setting of GENERATED-AUTOLOADS-FILE?), should be immutable. Stefan's comment about stripping comments from the loaddefs files as part of the install process is intriguing. Am I correct in thinking this is pretty much equivalent to your option #1, in that the ";;;###" section is only used for updating the loaddefs file? Cheers, David --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQGcBAEBCAAGBQJWd/BcAAoJEPIClx2kp54scKsL/A1fbJraQ7OYbwd6fD48Nyh9 Q/JJtcCEWO/ZC8lIUzNIV18KG1iBpr0MrrAEhiPjaaqcDqSiuOFe2Nn/DTfI78jy GEgU/1IQ7fSl+cT7tJdNp6fQt1Baq++pEeEzM2/LHeeDz+wjGHt43WX6czL7WEaw gs1viVsI8arMcte/H+m2fIfIlj7tYai1oH8vACpzCyp5tx+mCfdXTdBZYE/kr5KO AmCDkb4NZnnbKlkm64LUrmjD65U5KJ43GZdpTsqIGJgQTi3kFrVrZzdj0O10yUqM sn6AHmT1VwiUEKgJRSRmLA3ySMCakgy/4wSJF/x4KIdAFaDoJrtnFZCZGkVxOquY AXzlCNStWpty/jS51IGUg4g+fTgtFeDfqArJE4zuRrXbS1AM84djVN8b7cW6hvQe gikMhuRJWTHIsNefbLp2y2T7+0Z84lO11x72VdYjzH5VcCAmpLJiXOzwvzL19d7B YtOBT5QJqIt8v9cH0op1M3WBHx79pKMNEy8VR/coDA== =OlI1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--