From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 12:28:32 +0100 Message-ID: <87y45c5py7.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <87twg2g86g.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83eg76n5h5.fsf@gnu.org> <87y45eeoor.fsf@lifelogs.com> <577D42BB.1020500@cs.ucla.edu> <87oa694rfw.fsf@russet.org.uk> <837fcxlbay.fsf@gnu.org> <87lh1d2wg5.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83eg75jk5h.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467977373 8223 80.91.229.3 (8 Jul 2016 11:29:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 11:29:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 08 13:29:23 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bLTyD-00048Z-Nq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 13:29:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44915 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLTy4-0006dQ-FL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 07:29:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40369) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLTxX-0006dK-15 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 07:28:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLTxW-00079K-0u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 07:28:38 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:49738) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLTxS-000755-07; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 07:28:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=d4olai60El4FSl509LsWM1sQ7AffyAzUz/RSblJs3xE=; b=j4BfKZJvu7clswRoRJUqEQfNwI t4SvbvHeDduVph+5kdnb+GunRJ5mlm42uYgmETtRnQTgUey3WalQ8wqwySwKD3VdKjJxq7LnOYEU2 J6GyDtuDSp7u5o2h9Kt0+3hJmjVMINvHPzmQ/bZAbiWLYA9vLKB11XBXZJKAnwozx8TtyTgEnQxVB +YTZxZpWM6zZIw6rqNE/RLr+1oW2lqDRaeYd12B7cTWlOVnnuxEpl4+GThg3HI67i+ERIHSoLyyDM HBFq/yR8gHOneRKfTdxMRIM4xyizH1d2TI7hJg66C69vkrAIuhzGVDBdusXNWfo15GGLfhbHgHGqo cZLCT7jA==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:32418 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1bLTxQ-003x50-PG; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 12:28:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83eg75jk5h.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:57:46 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.95 (gnu/linux) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205421 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> First, we do not have a system for managing PRs/patches in the >> queue. So, it's possible that people with outstanding patches are >> not busier than you, they just missed things. > > I just read the bug list and manage my email queue. How hard can that > be? It is okay, once you are used to it. >> Secondly, in terms of pushing patches for someone else, this doesn't >> need to be harder than reviewing the patch and signaling that you are >> happy. Many PR management systems will do the merge after "LGTM". > > Problem is, I don't find the subtle fine points that need addressing > until I actually apply the patch: compiler warnings, code not > according to our conventions, sometimes patch won't apply, etc. With a PR, it always applies. Compiler warnings obviously require an integrated continuous integration system (i.e. the PR is pre-built, tested and the potential merge is checked for conflicts). >> I look at this the other way around. I think we are likely to get more >> developers, if it is easier to contribute. > > I think we've already done a lot in that direction, and I don't see > how can we be expected to do more. All the other projects I > participate in make it harder, and yet no one complains or thinks they > are hard on contributors. The fundamental complexity is contributing is the software engineering. Tools do not really change that, of course, but that is not really a reason for not using good tools. >> I think I have discussed this with you before. You have to create >> multiple feature branches, or do strange things, rather than just >> rebase, force push. > > What's the problem with multiple branches? It's a very easy > technique, and also very safe. I think a system where you start off with feature/my-new-feature feature/my-new-feature-1 feature/my-new-feature-2 with consecutive squashes is not a good system. I think that the discussion is bottoming out here. If there is interest, I will be happy to investigate some of the options and produce a report of pros and cons. Alternatively, if the general feeling is, it's all fine, then no worries, I'll leave it. Phil