Re: Some developement questions

[Joshua Branson <jbranso@fastmail.com>]

hw <hw@adminart.net> writes:

> Davis Herring <herring@lanl.gov> writes:
>
>>>>> And I don't remember how to get back when following links in info
>>>>> documentation
>>>>
>>>> You can type 'l' (for "last"), or use the left arrow button on the
>>>> tool bar, or click on "Info" in the menu bar and select "Back in
>>>> History", or click on Info->History and select any node you visited at
>>>> random.
>>>
>>> Ah!  I remembered something about arrows and tried to use the cursor
>>> keys --- how about making it so that you can go back and forth in info
>>> with Alt+<Cursor> like you can do in web browsers?
>>
>> There is the usual issue of Emacs' traditional keybindings clashing
>> with those from other (usually newer) domains: Alt generally meaning
>> Meta, M-left/M-right are already used for backward-/forward-word.
>
> Meta seems to be ESC.  Alt doesn't do anything like what ESC does, and I
> inevitably have two entirely different Alt keys because I'm using a
> German keyboard.
>
> Some key combinations that require some combination of Meta and Control
> do not work at all.
>
> Who would ever press ESC-right or ESC-left to move a word?

part of this reason is why I started to use evil-mode.  :)

>
> Hm, ok, I tried Alt, and it now does work, at least in an X frame.  Only
> the Alt key is on the wrong side of the keyboard, as is ESC, to be
> useful for moving.
>
> Since when does Alt work the same as ESC?
>
>> Of course, we also have M-b/M-f for those, but the point is that such
>> changes do not come without cost.  You are free to argue something
>> along the lines of "For the future userbase of Emacs, consistency with
>> the rest of the world is important enough to change X.", but that's
>> quite a bit different from "how about...?".
>
> The issue in this case is not traditional key bindings vs. more recently
> invented ones.  The issue is that I very rarely use info and thus do not
> remember its key bindings.  Does the help page I got stuck in say
> anywhere how to get back?
>
> Why shouldn't Emacs adjust to changes and adopt new key bindings so it
> becomes easier to use?
>
>>> I have menu and toolbar disabled ...
>>
>> Complaining about navigability and discoverability of an interface
>> while having disabled its most discoverable features meant to guide
>> new users is a strange combination.
>
> I'm pointing out a usability issue and you call it complaining.  That
> must be the right attitude.
>
> Fine, I'll give vim a try.
>
>
> PS: I tried vim in the meantime, and I'll probably switch.
>
>>> Basically, I want to use the Emacs server the usual way how you use any
>>> server, like a web server or an ssh server or an XMPP server.
>>
>> Or an X server, which is attached to the hardware that faces the user?
>> There's more than one way to think of the word.
>
> I don't want it to use like an X server, and there are always many ways
> to think of all words.