From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Christopher Lemmer Webber Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 23:01:39 -0400 Message-ID: <87y2pvrzho.fsf@dustycloud.org> References: <87k11htj96.fsf@dustycloud.org> <87pnb7u70r.fsf@red-bean.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="67594"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.3 Cc: Emacs developers , ndame To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 14 05:02:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ48W-000HTV-Fp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 05:02:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41822 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ48V-0007dA-Gq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 23:02:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47246) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ47x-0007B0-OZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 23:01:41 -0400 Original-Received: from dustycloud.org ([50.116.34.160]:40238) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ47w-0005wv-Sp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 23:01:41 -0400 Original-Received: from twig (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dustycloud.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 692B1265E6; Wed, 13 May 2020 23:01:39 -0400 (EDT) In-reply-to: <87pnb7u70r.fsf@red-bean.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=50.116.34.160; envelope-from=cwebber@dustycloud.org; helo=dustycloud.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/13 23:01:39 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250183 Archived-At: Karl Fogel writes: > On 12 May 2020, Christopher Lemmer Webber wrote: > >>Thus if there's a space for paid work, I think it would be to do this >>work which might not be as directly useful to the developer, but would >>be directly useful to other newcomers. It would be useful and important >>IMO to directly test against newcomers' experiences and collect feedback. > > FWIW -- and perhaps to your surprise -- I would argue that this is *not* the important question for Emacs. > > I've explained why in another thread: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-05/msg01855.html Hi Karl, nice to hear you reply to me :) I agree with a lot of your assessments, that the highest value in Emacs is the willingness to invest in it. A well customized emacs conforms to the shape of one's body and mind. And I agree then that this is a selling point to advertise. I still don't think that's in contradiction to the "conventional editor starter pack" goal though. I know people who are tantalized by the *idea* of learning Emacs, but get an enormous amount of imposter syndrome and feeling of being overwhelmed when dipping their toes in the water... some have tried dipping their toes in the water a few times. Me personally, once I decided to learn emacs I just jumped straight into the deep end. But that's not for everyone. Sometimes it can be nice to have a wading area in the swimming pool for some folks. That's my feeling, anyway. - Chris