with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[T.V Raman]

After building from head today with --with-pgtk,

I've now lost keys such as C-;, C-, etc under X -- they just produce
the key minus the modifier bit, So c-; just generates ";". Bug or intentional?

Removing --with-pgtk from the config options and rebuilding got back
C-; and friends.

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> After building from head today with --with-pgtk,
>
> I've now lost keys such as C-;, C-, etc under X -- they just produce
> the key minus the modifier bit, So c-; just generates ";". Bug or
> intentional?

People running X should not use the PGTK port.  The only use it has is
to support Wayland and Broadway.

And it's not intentional.  Rather, it's a bug in the various GTK input
modules out there that isn't likely to ever be fixed.  Just treat it as
a limitation of the PGTK port and don't use it unless you have to.

Thanks.

> Removing --with-pgtk from the config options and rebuilding got back
> C-; and friends.

Indeed, which is one of the reasons why people who don't have a specific
reason to use the PGTK port (such as Wayland) should not use it.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:49:56 +0800
> 
> > I've now lost keys such as C-;, C-, etc under X -- they just produce
> > the key minus the modifier bit, So c-; just generates ";". Bug or
> > intentional?
> 
> People running X should not use the PGTK port.  The only use it has is
> to support Wayland and Broadway.
> 
> And it's not intentional.  Rather, it's a bug in the various GTK input
> modules out there that isn't likely to ever be fixed.  Just treat it as
> a limitation of the PGTK port and don't use it unless you have to.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> > Removing --with-pgtk from the config options and rebuilding got back
> > C-; and friends.
> 
> Indeed, which is one of the reasons why people who don't have a specific
> reason to use the PGTK port (such as Wayland) should not use it.

Should this be in NEWS (and perhaps also in PROBLEMS)?

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Should this be in NEWS (and perhaps also in PROBLEMS)?

The NEWS entry seems fine (it already mentions that it's for Wayland and
Broadway), but yes, it probably deserves an entry in PROBLEMS.

Thanks.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org,  raman@google.com
> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:45:45 +0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Should this be in NEWS (and perhaps also in PROBLEMS)?
> 
> The NEWS entry seems fine (it already mentions that it's for Wayland and
> Broadway)

IMNSHO, not explicitly enough:

  ** Emacs now supports being built with pure GTK.
  To use this option, make sure the GTK 3 and Cairo development files
  are installed, and configure Emacs with the option '--with-pgtk'.
  Unlike the default X and GTK build, the resulting Emacs binary will
  work on any underlying window system supported by GDK, such as
  Wayland and Broadway.

No matter how many times I re-read this, I fail to understand that it
tells me not to use it on X, and it definitely doesn't warn me of any
downsides if I do.  A word of warning is definitely in order there.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> IMNSHO, not explicitly enough:
>
>   ** Emacs now supports being built with pure GTK.
>   To use this option, make sure the GTK 3 and Cairo development files
>   are installed, and configure Emacs with the option '--with-pgtk'.
>   Unlike the default X and GTK build, the resulting Emacs binary will
>   work on any underlying window system supported by GDK, such as
>   Wayland and Broadway.
>
> No matter how many times I re-read this, I fail to understand that it
> tells me not to use it on X, and it definitely doesn't warn me of any
> downsides if I do.  A word of warning is definitely in order there.

How about "the resulting Emacs binary is supposed to work with window
systems other than X that are supported by GDK, such as Wayland and
Broadway"?

Thanks.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org,  raman@google.com
> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:03:36 +0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > IMNSHO, not explicitly enough:
> >
> >   ** Emacs now supports being built with pure GTK.
> >   To use this option, make sure the GTK 3 and Cairo development files
> >   are installed, and configure Emacs with the option '--with-pgtk'.
> >   Unlike the default X and GTK build, the resulting Emacs binary will
> >   work on any underlying window system supported by GDK, such as
> >   Wayland and Broadway.
> >
> > No matter how many times I re-read this, I fail to understand that it
> > tells me not to use it on X, and it definitely doesn't warn me of any
> > downsides if I do.  A word of warning is definitely in order there.
> 
> How about "the resulting Emacs binary is supposed to work with window
> systems other than X that are supported by GDK, such as Wayland and
> Broadway"?

I'd suggest something more explicit, like

  We do not recommend that you use this configuration, unless you are
  running a window system that's supported by GDK, such as Wayland or
  Broadway.  Running this configuration on X is known to have
  problems, like ...

(describe a couple of problems instead of the ellipsis).

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tim Cross]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org,  raman@google.com
>> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:03:36 +0800
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > IMNSHO, not explicitly enough:
>> >
>> >   ** Emacs now supports being built with pure GTK.
>> >   To use this option, make sure the GTK 3 and Cairo development files
>> >   are installed, and configure Emacs with the option '--with-pgtk'.
>> >   Unlike the default X and GTK build, the resulting Emacs binary will
>> >   work on any underlying window system supported by GDK, such as
>> >   Wayland and Broadway.
>> >
>> > No matter how many times I re-read this, I fail to understand that it
>> > tells me not to use it on X, and it definitely doesn't warn me of any
>> > downsides if I do.  A word of warning is definitely in order there.
>> 
>> How about "the resulting Emacs binary is supposed to work with window
>> systems other than X that are supported by GDK, such as Wayland and
>> Broadway"?
>
> I'd suggest something more explicit, like
>
>   We do not recommend that you use this configuration, unless you are
>   running a window system that's supported by GDK, such as Wayland or
>   Broadway.  Running this configuration on X is known to have
>   problems, like ...
>
> (describe a couple of problems instead of the ellipsis).

Yes, I think it needs to be this explicit. The suggested entgry from Po
Lu is still too oblique and fails to be explicit about known issues.
Something also seems "wrong" with a statement which includes "is
supposed to work". 

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

>> I'd suggest something more explicit, like
>>
>>   We do not recommend that you use this configuration, unless you are
>>   running a window system that's supported by GDK, such as Wayland or
>>   Broadway.  Running this configuration on X is known to have
>>   problems, like ...
>>
>> (describe a couple of problems instead of the ellipsis).
>
> Yes, I think it needs to be this explicit. The suggested entgry from Po
> Lu is still too oblique and fails to be explicit about known issues.
> Something also seems "wrong" with a statement which includes "is
> supposed to work". 

Eli's suggestion does seem much better.  I'll install something to those
lines soon.

Thanks.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tim Cross]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org,  raman@google.com
>> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:45:45 +0800
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Should this be in NEWS (and perhaps also in PROBLEMS)?
>> 
>> The NEWS entry seems fine (it already mentions that it's for Wayland and
>> Broadway)
>
> IMNSHO, not explicitly enough:
>
>   ** Emacs now supports being built with pure GTK.
>   To use this option, make sure the GTK 3 and Cairo development files
>   are installed, and configure Emacs with the option '--with-pgtk'.
>   Unlike the default X and GTK build, the resulting Emacs binary will
>   work on any underlying window system supported by GDK, such as
>   Wayland and Broadway.
>
> No matter how many times I re-read this, I fail to understand that it
> tells me not to use it on X, and it definitely doesn't warn me of any
> downsides if I do.  A word of warning is definitely in order there.

Yes, I would agree. 

This is likely going to be problematic. A number of GNU Linux distros
are now defaulting to Wayland (e.g. fedora) and others have flagged
tgheir intention to follow suit (Ubuntu, Debian). 

Where this could become problematic is if distro maintainers don't
realise there are downsides with a pgtk build under X. In this
situation, they are likely to only bundle a pgtk and non-GUI versions
rather than a pgtk, X and non-GUI versions. 

If we make the issues associated with pgtk, X and input methods
explicit, distributions which want to support wayland and X will be more
likely to include both wayland (pgtk) and X binary packages. 

As distributions which do support wayland typically also make it easy to
select/switch desktop environments, it is probably also important users
are aware of the input method issues with pgtk under X as it means that
when they switch from wayland to X, they also need to know to switch
which build of Emacs they run. Failure to adequately communicate this
will likely result in numerous unresolvable bug reports. 

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[T.V Raman]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030, Size: 2488 bytes --]

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

More importantly, that this difference only showed up recently makes me
still want to call it a bug --- not a "Xis old and broken go away if it
doesn't work" view-point.

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org,  raman@google.com
>>> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:45:45 +0800
>>> 
>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>> 
>>> > Should this be in NEWS (and perhaps also in PROBLEMS)?
>>> 
>>> The NEWS entry seems fine (it already mentions that it's for Wayland and
>>> Broadway)
>>
>> IMNSHO, not explicitly enough:
>>
>>   ** Emacs now supports being built with pure GTK.
>>   To use this option, make sure the GTK 3 and Cairo development files
>>   are installed, and configure Emacs with the option '--with-pgtk'.
>>   Unlike the default X and GTK build, the resulting Emacs binary will
>>   work on any underlying window system supported by GDK, such as
>>   Wayland and Broadway.
>>
>> No matter how many times I re-read this, I fail to understand that it
>> tells me not to use it on X, and it definitely doesn't warn me of any
>> downsides if I do.  A word of warning is definitely in order there.
>
> Yes, I would agree. 
>
> This is likely going to be problematic. A number of GNU Linux distros
> are now defaulting to Wayland (e.g. fedora) and others have flagged
> tgheir intention to follow suit (Ubuntu, Debian). 
>
> Where this could become problematic is if distro maintainers don't
> realise there are downsides with a pgtk build under X. In this
> situation, they are likely to only bundle a pgtk and non-GUI versions
> rather than a pgtk, X and non-GUI versions. 
>
> If we make the issues associated with pgtk, X and input methods
> explicit, distributions which want to support wayland and X will be more
> likely to include both wayland (pgtk) and X binary packages. 
>
> As distributions which do support wayland typically also make it easy to
> select/switch desktop environments, it is probably also important users
> are aware of the input method issues with pgtk under X as it means that
> when they switch from wayland to X, they also need to know to switch
> which build of Emacs they run. Failure to adequately communicate this
> will likely result in numerous unresolvable bug reports. 
>

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
7©4 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  •0Ü8

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tim Cross]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
>
> More importantly, that this difference only showed up recently makes me
> still want to call it a bug --- not a "Xis old and broken go away if it
> doesn't work" view-point.
>

This is a very important point!

If you were running the pgtk build and all the key bindings were working
fine and then suddenly they stopped working, I would agree it it likely
there is something more going on than simply "a known problem with gtk
and input methods".Especially as it is unlikely you changed input
methods settings. It may be a mistake to just write this off as a "known
issue". Will be interesting if others running pgtk under X also start
noticing issues. 

While I'm not running the pgtk build at present, have to admit that when
I did a few months back, I did not encounter any key binding issues
under X. Have to admit, I didn't do anthing 'special' with input
methods. Just ran it under various X envrionments (Stumpwm, Ubuntu Matge
and a brief experiment with Exwm).

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> If you were running the pgtk build and all the key bindings were working
> fine and then suddenly they stopped working, I would agree it it likely
> there is something more going on than simply "a known problem with gtk
> and input methods".

AFAICT, it's the same issue with "C-S-u" being reported as C-u on the
PGTK port, which has been there since the beginning (search the bug
tracker for more details.)

Disabling input methods using `pgtk-use-im-context' makes both problems
go away here for me, and none of that code has changed since it was
installed.

So if the problem only recently appeared for you in the PGTK builds,
please try to bisect to the change which introduced it.

Thanks.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tassilo Horn]

Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

>> If you were running the pgtk build and all the key bindings were
>> working fine and then suddenly they stopped working, I would agree it
>> it likely there is something more going on than simply "a known
>> problem with gtk and input methods".
>
> AFAICT, it's the same issue with "C-S-u" being reported as C-u on the
> PGTK port, which has been there since the beginning (search the bug
> tracker for more details.)

Interesting, I'm using pgtk on wayland/sway and C-h k C-S-u doesn't
report anything but inserts an underlined letter "u" in the current
buffer, even when that is read-only, and still seems to wait for my key.
Then, emacs is inresponsive, C-g won't work, and I need to switch to
another window and back again.  At that point, the underlined u
disappears and I can interact with emacs again.

> Disabling input methods using `pgtk-use-im-context' makes both
> problems go away here for me, and none of that code has changed since
> it was installed.

When I run (pgtk-use-im-context nil), the above problem doesn't happen
and C-h k C-S-u reports C-u translated from C-S-u.  However, I also
cannot insert characters like ` or ´ anymore.  Pressing the relevant
AltGr-key combo on my German Dvorak layout doesn't seem to be received
by emacs.  C-h k <AltGr-combo> doesn't receive anything.

So it seems like I can choose pest or cholera...

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Interesting, I'm using pgtk on wayland/sway and C-h k C-S-u doesn't
> report anything but inserts an underlined letter "u" in the current
> buffer, even when that is read-only, and still seems to wait for my key.
> Then, emacs is inresponsive, C-g won't work, and I need to switch to
> another window and back again.  At that point, the underlined u
> disappears and I can interact with emacs again.

If you're using I-Bus, then that's the Unicode code-point input panel.
You can disable it by running:

  gsettings set org.freedesktop.ibus.panel.emoji unicode-hotkey []

Or removing the "Unicode code point" entry in the Emoji tab of
ibus-setup.

The reason C-g does not work and Emacs appears to be unresponsive is
that the input method filters out all keypresses and sends them to the
panel, and switching to another window serves to dismiss that panel.

> When I run (pgtk-use-im-context nil), the above problem doesn't happen
> and C-h k C-S-u reports C-u translated from C-S-u.  However, I also
> cannot insert characters like ` or ´ anymore.  Pressing the relevant
> AltGr-key combo on my German Dvorak layout doesn't seem to be received
> by emacs.  C-h k <AltGr-combo> doesn't receive anything.

That's expected, since those combinations are handled by the GTK input
method machinery.

Thanks.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tassilo Horn]

Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

>> Interesting, I'm using pgtk on wayland/sway and C-h k C-S-u doesn't
>> report anything but inserts an underlined letter "u" in the current
>> buffer, even when that is read-only, and still seems to wait for my
>> key.  Then, emacs is inresponsive, C-g won't work, and I need to
>> switch to another window and back again.  At that point, the
>> underlined u disappears and I can interact with emacs again.
>
> If you're using I-Bus, then that's the Unicode code-point input panel.
> You can disable it by running:
>
>   gsettings set org.freedesktop.ibus.panel.emoji unicode-hotkey []

It seems I'm not, that says "No such schema
“org.freedesktop.ibus.panel.emoji”".  I also don't have the ibus package
installed but I do have libibus upon which a lot of packages seem to
depend on.

I've tried looking for other schemas but didn't find some but of course
I'm not actually sure what I'm looking for:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
❯ gsettings list-schemas | grep im
org.gnome.desktop.datetime
org.gnome.gedit.plugins.time

❯ gsettings list-schemas | grep input
org.gnome.desktop.input-sources

❯ gsettings list-schemas | grep ibus

--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> It seems I'm not, that says "No such schema
> “org.freedesktop.ibus.panel.emoji”".  I also don't have the ibus package
> installed but I do have libibus upon which a lot of packages seem to
> depend on.
>
> I've tried looking for other schemas but didn't find some but of course
> I'm not actually sure what I'm looking for:
>
> ❯ gsettings list-schemas | grep im
> org.gnome.desktop.datetime
> org.gnome.gedit.plugins.time
>
> ❯ gsettings list-schemas | grep input
> org.gnome.desktop.input-sources
>
> ❯ gsettings list-schemas | grep ibus
>
> Bye,
> Tassilo

I don't know about the other input method frameworks.  Could you find
out which one you are using?

Thanks in advance.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tassilo Horn]

Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

> I don't know about the other input method frameworks.  Could you find
> out which one you are using?

I've searched a bit and found

  https://docs.gtk.org/gtk3/property.Settings.gtk-im-module.html

which suggests that the property gtk-im-module is the default input
method unless the user explicitly chose another im-module from the IM
context menu.

❯ gtk-query-settings | grep im-module
                      gtk-im-module: "wayland"

So it seems I'm using the wayland input method module.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> I don't know about the other input method frameworks.  Could you find
>> out which one you are using?
>
> I've searched a bit and found
>
>   https://docs.gtk.org/gtk3/property.Settings.gtk-im-module.html
>
> which suggests that the property gtk-im-module is the default input
> method unless the user explicitly chose another im-module from the IM
> context menu.
>
> ❯ gtk-query-settings | grep im-module
>                       gtk-im-module: "wayland"
>
> So it seems I'm using the wayland input method module.

Unfortunately that just means it's using the input-method-unstable-v1
Wayland protocol extension to handle input methods, and says nothing
about the framework being used.

Thanks.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tassilo Horn]

Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

>> ❯ gtk-query-settings | grep im-module
>>                       gtk-im-module: "wayland"
>>
>> So it seems I'm using the wayland input method module.
>
> Unfortunately that just means it's using the input-method-unstable-v1
> Wayland protocol extension to handle input methods, and says nothing
> about the framework being used.

Ok.  Do you have an idea where else I should have a look?

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[T.V Raman]

In case it helps --

I was running the pgtk build on Debian until a few weeks ago -- and
 switched away after reporting a segfault -- should be in the list
 archives. Before that C-; worked in the pgtk build. I went back to
 try pgtk last week  an  now there is no crash but the keys as I
 reported have disappeared.

Tassilo Horn writes:
 > Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:
 > 
 > >> ❯ gtk-query-settings | grep im-module
 > >>                       gtk-im-module: "wayland"
 > >>
 > >> So it seems I'm using the wayland input method module.
 > >
 > > Unfortunately that just means it's using the input-method-unstable-v1
 > > Wayland protocol extension to handle input methods, and says nothing
 > > about the framework being used.
 > 
 > Ok.  Do you have an idea where else I should have a look?
 > 
 > Bye,
 > Tassilo

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tassilo Horn]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> I was running the pgtk build on Debian until a few weeks ago -- and
> switched away after reporting a segfault -- should be in the list
> archives.

Found it, it was on January, 6th.

> Before that C-; worked in the pgtk build.  I went back to try pgtk
> last week an now there is no crash but the keys as I reported have
> disappeared.

Hm, C-; works for me with the current master, and C-S-u triggers the GTK
Unicode input method.  Now I know at least what "that underlined u" is.
After C-S-u one can insert 4 hex-digits and then it'll be replaced by
the corresponding unicode character.

I've tried out commit 97b6907563ae9c96ebb97876ce0662c7f9d47535 from
December, 18th (shortly after the pgtk merge) in order to bisect but
there I get the very same behavior as with today's master.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
>
>> I was running the pgtk build on Debian until a few weeks ago -- and
>> switched away after reporting a segfault -- should be in the list
>> archives.
>
> Found it, it was on January, 6th.
>
>> Before that C-; worked in the pgtk build.  I went back to try pgtk
>> last week an now there is no crash but the keys as I reported have
>> disappeared.
>
> Hm, C-; works for me with the current master, and C-S-u triggers the GTK
> Unicode input method.  Now I know at least what "that underlined u" is.
> After C-S-u one can insert 4 hex-digits and then it'll be replaced by
> the corresponding unicode character.

I think that's GTK's IMContextSimple. What does "echo $GTK_IM_MODULE"
get you? Maybe you can try:

gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard active false

I've only fooled with the edges of this stuff, but maybe something in
the above will get you there.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
>>
>>> I was running the pgtk build on Debian until a few weeks ago -- and
>>> switched away after reporting a segfault -- should be in the list
>>> archives.
>>
>> Found it, it was on January, 6th.
>>
>>> Before that C-; worked in the pgtk build.  I went back to try pgtk
>>> last week an now there is no crash but the keys as I reported have
>>> disappeared.
>>
>> Hm, C-; works for me with the current master, and C-S-u triggers the GTK
>> Unicode input method.  Now I know at least what "that underlined u" is.
>> After C-S-u one can insert 4 hex-digits and then it'll be replaced by
>> the corresponding unicode character.
>
> I think that's GTK's IMContextSimple. What does "echo $GTK_IM_MODULE"
> get you? Maybe you can try:
>
> gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard active false
>
> I've only fooled with the edges of this stuff, but maybe something in
> the above will get you there.

Just for context, I use fcitx, and my GTK_IM_MODULE is set to fcitx, and
with the recent Emacs changes (I'm also on Arch/sway/pgtk) I had to go
into the fcitx configuration and disable a bunch of previously-ignored
hotkeys that suddenly were being honored.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tassilo Horn]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

>> I think that's GTK's IMContextSimple.

Indeed.

❯ gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-im-module
'gtk-im-context-simple'

> Just for context, I use fcitx, and my GTK_IM_MODULE is set to fcitx,
> and with the recent Emacs changes (I'm also on Arch/sway/pgtk) I had
> to go into the fcitx configuration and disable a bunch of
> previously-ignored hotkeys that suddenly were being honored.

If I just knew which input method framework I'm using so that I could do
the same. :-)

Maybe gtk-query-immodules-3.0 gives a clue?

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
❯ gtk-query-immodules-3.0 
# GTK+ Input Method Modules file
# Automatically generated file, do not edit
# Created by gtk-query-immodules-3.0 from gtk+-3.24.31
#
# ModulesPath = /usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/linux/immodules:/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules:/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/linux/immodules:/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/immodules
#
"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-am-et.so" 
"am_et" "Amharic (EZ+)" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "am" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-broadway.so" 
"broadway" "Broadway" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-cedilla.so" 
"cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-cyrillic-translit.so" 
"cyrillic_translit" "Cyrillic (Transliterated)" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-inuktitut.so" 
"inuktitut" "Inuktitut (Transliterated)" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "iu" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-ipa.so" 
"ipa" "IPA" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-multipress.so" 
"multipress" "Multipress" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-thai.so" 
"thai" "Thai-Lao" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "lo:th" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-ti-er.so" 
"ti_er" "Tigrigna-Eritrean (EZ+)" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "ti" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-ti-et.so" 
"ti_et" "Tigrigna-Ethiopian (EZ+)" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "ti" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-viqr.so" 
"viqr" "Vietnamese (VIQR)" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-wayland.so" 
"wayland" "Wayland" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-waylandgtk.so" 
"waylandgtk" "Waylandgtk" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "" 

"/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-xim.so" 
"xim" "X Input Method" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "ko:ja:th:zh" 
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tassilo Horn]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

Hi Eric,

>>> Before that C-; worked in the pgtk build.  I went back to try pgtk
>>> last week an now there is no crash but the keys as I reported have
>>> disappeared.
>>
>> Hm, C-; works for me with the current master, and C-S-u triggers the
>> GTK Unicode input method.  Now I know at least what "that underlined
>> u" is.  After C-S-u one can insert 4 hex-digits and then it'll be
>> replaced by the corresponding unicode character.
>
> I think that's GTK's IMContextSimple. What does "echo $GTK_IM_MODULE"
> get you?

It's undefined.

> Maybe you can try:
>
> gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard active false

No such schema “org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard”

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
> Hi Eric,
>
>>>> Before that C-; worked in the pgtk build.  I went back to try pgtk
>>>> last week an now there is no crash but the keys as I reported have
>>>> disappeared.
>>>
>>> Hm, C-; works for me with the current master, and C-S-u triggers the
>>> GTK Unicode input method.  Now I know at least what "that underlined
>>> u" is.  After C-S-u one can insert 4 hex-digits and then it'll be
>>> replaced by the corresponding unicode character.
>>
>> I think that's GTK's IMContextSimple. What does "echo $GTK_IM_MODULE"
>> get you?
>
> It's undefined.
>
>> Maybe you can try:
>>
>> gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard active false
>
> No such schema “org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard”

Bummer. Well I still think your answer is "in there" somewhere.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> No such schema “org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard”

Disabling the IM module is the equivalent of (pgtk-use-im-context nil),
except it takes effect for all applications.

So that's probably not your answer.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[T.V Raman]

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Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:


And on my laptop I get:

gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-im-module
''
19:10:01 raman-glaptop ~ $ uname -a
Linux raman-glaptop 5.14.16-1rodete1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.14.16-1rodete1 (2021-11-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux
19:11:52 raman-glaptop ~ $ rr

>
> Hi Eric,
>
>>>> Before that C-; worked in the pgtk build.  I went back to try pgtk
>>>> last week an now there is no crash but the keys as I reported have
>>>> disappeared.
>>>
>>> Hm, C-; works for me with the current master, and C-S-u triggers the
>>> GTK Unicode input method.  Now I know at least what "that underlined
>>> u" is.  After C-S-u one can insert 4 hex-digits and then it'll be
>>> replaced by the corresponding unicode character.
>>
>> I think that's GTK's IMContextSimple. What does "echo $GTK_IM_MODULE"
>> get you?
>
> It's undefined.
>
>> Maybe you can try:
>>
>> gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard active false
>
> No such schema ¡°org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard¡±
>
> Bye,
> Tassilo
>

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
7©4 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  •0Ü8

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> And on my laptop I get:
>
> gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-im-module
> ''

What about the environment variables `GTK_IM_MODULE' and `GTK_MODULES'?

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[T.V Raman]

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Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

10:11:44 raman-glaptop ~ $ echo $GTK_MODULES

10:11:52 raman-glaptop ~ $ echo $GTK_IM_MODULE 
xim
10:12:32 raman-glaptop ~ $ 
> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
>
>> And on my laptop I get:
>>
>> gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-im-module
>> ''
>
> What about the environment variables `GTK_IM_MODULE' and `GTK_MODULES'?
>

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
7©4 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  •0Ü8

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> 10:11:52 raman-glaptop ~ $ echo $GTK_IM_MODULE 
> xim

What if you set it to `simple'?  The legacy XIM input module is
considered obsolete by the GTK developers and is not actively developed.

Thanks in advance.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Cc: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org>,  Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>,
>  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 09:02:35 +0800
> 
> > 10:11:52 raman-glaptop ~ $ echo $GTK_IM_MODULE 
> > xim
> 
> What if you set it to `simple'?  The legacy XIM input module is
> considered obsolete by the GTK developers and is not actively developed.

Should this be in PROBLEMS?

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Should this be in PROBLEMS?

Right now I'm not sure what to say there, but if changing the IM module
is sufficient to solve the problem, then I'll describe that in PROBLEMS.

Thanks.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[T.V Raman]

Also, how do I find out if I even have ximple; I dont even know how to
find out if I have xim since it doesn't appear to be an executable on
my path.

Po Lu writes:
 > "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
 > 
 > > 10:11:52 raman-glaptop ~ $ echo $GTK_IM_MODULE 
 > > xim
 > 
 > What if you set it to `simple'?  The legacy XIM input module is
 > considered obsolete by the GTK developers and is not actively developed.
 > 
 > Thanks in advance.

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> Also, how do I find out if I even have ximple; I dont even know how to
> find out if I have xim since it doesn't appear to be an executable on
> my path.

The simple and XIM backends are built alongside GTK, so they are always
present.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[T.V Raman]

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Thanks.

Looking at the various options -- and boy are they bewilderingly many;-)
it might time for emacs to take a step back and collectively come up
with a couple of keyboard configurations for the GUI desktop, in a
manner analogous to what was done for the console many, many years ago
where eventually Linux came with emacs.kmap and emacs2.kmap -- I dont
think end-users, or even specific distros or going to figure this out
for emacs.

This whole thread also reminded me of ibus -- whose landing on Ubuntu a
few years ago broke C-SPC; I remembered only because I have a line in my
.xsession that kills ibus if it running.


-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
7©4 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  •0Ü8

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[T.V Raman]

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Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

Setting the IM module to ximple
GTK_IM_MODULE=ximple
at the top of my .xsession file, and rebuilding emacs with --with-pgtk

I got all my keys back -- thanks!

> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
>
>> Also, how do I find out if I even have ximple; I dont even know how to
>> find out if I have xim since it doesn't appear to be an executable on
>> my path.
>
> The simple and XIM backends are built alongside GTK, so they are always
> present.
>

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
7©4 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  •0Ü8

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> Setting the IM module to ximple
> GTK_IM_MODULE=ximple
> at the top of my .xsession file, and rebuilding emacs with --with-pgtk

Would you please try `simple' instead?  Also, that's the equivalent of
running (pgtk-use-im-context nil) inside Emacs.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> In case it helps --
>
> I was running the pgtk build on Debian until a few weeks ago -- and
>  switched away after reporting a segfault -- should be in the list
>  archives. Before that C-; worked in the pgtk build. I went back to
>  try pgtk last week  an  now there is no crash but the keys as I
>  reported have disappeared.

I unfortunately have no idea as to what might've changed.  Please try
using "git bisect" to find the offending commit.

Thanks.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 15.02.2022 06:49, Po Lu wrote:
> "T.V Raman"<raman@google.com>  writes:
> 
>> After building from head today with --with-pgtk,
>>
>> I've now lost keys such as C-;, C-, etc under X -- they just produce
>> the key minus the modifier bit, So c-; just generates ";". Bug or
>> intentional?
> People running X should not use the PGTK port.  The only use it has is
> to support Wayland and Broadway.
> 
> And it's not intentional.  Rather, it's a bug in the various GTK input
> modules out there that isn't likely to ever be fixed.  Just treat it as
> a limitation of the PGTK port and don't use it unless you have to.

Is that specific to certain desktop environments?

I have a PGTK build compiled here (rev 70c3437a), and 'C-;' seems to be 
working fine. Ubuntu 20.04, GNOME Shell under Xorg.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Po Lu]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> Is that specific to certain desktop environments?

It's specific to certain popular input method modules.  If you have
disabled input method support, then C-; will work, but as expected the
input methods will not.

With XIM support on X, all of that will work fine.

Thanks.

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[tomas]

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On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 07:43:34PM -0800, T.V Raman wrote:
> 
> After building from head today with --with-pgtk,
> 
> I've now lost keys such as C-;, C-, etc under X -- they just produce
> the key minus the modifier bit, So c-; just generates ";". Bug or intentional?

Is that the case for C-c, C-x and friends?

I.e. for "normal" letters?

Note that TTYs have no way to represent C-; and friends.

You ended up, perhaps, with a TTY build?

Cheers
-- 
t

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Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Tomas.

On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 07:36:21 +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 07:43:34PM -0800, T.V Raman wrote:

> > After building from head today with --with-pgtk,

> > I've now lost keys such as C-;, C-, etc under X -- they just produce
> > the key minus the modifier bit, So c-; just generates ";". Bug or intentional?

> Is that the case for C-c, C-x and friends?

> I.e. for "normal" letters?

> Note that TTYs have no way to represent C-; and friends.

But they do.  It just takes a bit of work.  loadkeys is your friend.
I've had C-; on my Linux console for over 20 years, now.  As well as
loadkeys, you need to set up Emacs with stuff in the function-key-map to
handle the modified keys.  It works well.

> You ended up, perhaps, with a TTY build?

> Cheers
> -- 
> t

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[tomas]

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On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 11:56:40AM +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Tomas.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 07:36:21 +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > Note that TTYs have no way to represent C-; and friends.
> 
> But they do.  It just takes a bit of work.  loadkeys is your friend.
> I've had C-; on my Linux console for over 20 years, now.  As well as
> loadkeys, you need to set up Emacs with stuff in the function-key-map to
> handle the modified keys.  It works well.

OK, OK. I should have added "often" :-)

Usually it's me the one who says "all generalizations suck". Thanks for
setting me straight.

Still, and returning to the OP, the described behaviour is at least a
kind of hint: I'd check whether C-c and C-x works or not, to bisect the
issue at that point.

Cheers
-- 
t

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Re: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';'

[Tim Cross]

tomas@tuxteam.de writes:

> [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 11:56:40AM +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> Hello, Tomas.
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 07:36:21 +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> > Note that TTYs have no way to represent C-; and friends.
>> 
>> But they do.  It just takes a bit of work.  loadkeys is your friend.
>> I've had C-; on my Linux console for over 20 years, now.  As well as
>> loadkeys, you need to set up Emacs with stuff in the function-key-map to
>> handle the modified keys.  It works well.
>
> OK, OK. I should have added "often" :-)
>
> Usually it's me the one who says "all generalizations suck". Thanks for
> setting me straight.
>
> Still, and returning to the OP, the described behaviour is at least a
> kind of hint: I'd check whether C-c and C-x works or not, to bisect the
> issue at that point.
>

I suspect if C-c and C-x did not work, that would already have been
reported as those are key bindings pretty essential to a functionaling
Emacs. A failing binding for something like C-; is something many users
may not notice for some time (if ever). 

Modifier keys on ttys (was: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';')

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Note that TTYs have no way to represent C-; and friends.
> But they do.  It just takes a bit of work.  loadkeys is your friend.
> I've had C-; on my Linux console for over 20 years, now.

Indeed.  And similar solutions exist for xterm and friends.

> As well as loadkeys, you need to set up Emacs with stuff in the
> function-key-map to handle the modified keys.  It works well.

Side note: the "right" way to do it is via `input-decode-map` rather
than `function-key-map`, BTW.


        Stefan

Re: Modifier keys on ttys (was: with-pgtk: C-; turns into plain ';')

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Stefan.

On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 08:08:56 -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> Note that TTYs have no way to represent C-; and friends.
> > But they do.  It just takes a bit of work.  loadkeys is your friend.
> > I've had C-; on my Linux console for over 20 years, now.

> Indeed.  And similar solutions exist for xterm and friends.

> > As well as loadkeys, you need to set up Emacs with stuff in the
> > function-key-map to handle the modified keys.  It works well.

> Side note: the "right" way to do it is via `input-decode-map` rather
> than `function-key-map`, BTW.

Ah, how these things change!  I think function-key-map was the only way
~20 years ago.

>         Stefan

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: Modifier keys on ttys

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Side note: the "right" way to do it is via `input-decode-map` rather
>> than `function-key-map`, BTW.
> Ah, how these things change!  I think function-key-map was the only way
> ~20 years ago.

Indeed, `function-key-map` used to be the only way.
I added `input-decode-map` in Emacs-23.


        Stefan