From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: standard libraries again (was: Re: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 23:18:39 +0200 Message-ID: <87y1xomm6o.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <86r13hubaw.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <86letphfke.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <871qvh4odf.fsf@dataswamp.org> <877d58pu3g.fsf_-_@dataswamp.org> <87k098o9pa.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7587"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:cyOPUYO3C1IO3oLYdgAPARRQhzI= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 22 23:19:33 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o47l7-0001oI-1V for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 23:19:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35754 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o47l5-0003OB-IZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:19:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54726) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o47kS-0003Nn-1r for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:18:52 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:35706) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o47kQ-0000d4-A1 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:18:51 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o47kO-0000xq-Qs for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 23:18:48 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137998 Archived-At: Drew Adams wrote: >> Now you're getting stuck on the names > > You asked "what's an Emacs library"? I thought you wanted to > know what "library" means to Emacs. So the truth to the matter is we have a bunch of files all over the place, with no way of knowing what's in them and what's where, and this lack of solid libraries compared to what the most successful languages have is a big part of the answer to the question why devel time in Elisp is often poor or moderate? I tried CL once with SLIME/SBCL/SDL2/OpenGL [1] but the interactiveness of Elisp wasn't there ... hm, maybe that was a game loop thing? Is it so, that CL has proper libraries only Emacs Lisp doesn't? Here library is a service to the programmer but also ... well, obviously a utility for the programs to work. Are libraries part of CL and part of its "industrial strength" Lisp quality? [1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/common-lisp/general-base -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal