From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Storing sensitive data indefinitely in variables or buffers: Whether and how to fix? Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2023 07:11:25 +0000 Message-ID: <87y1l3bqsi.fsf@localhost> References: <87fs7dnd1u.fsf@localhost> <6503151d-13be-f299-24a2-76bb9d6fecc8@alphapapa.net> <877csnd71w.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38069"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 01 09:07:35 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1q4cPH-0009fG-8f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 01 Jun 2023 09:07:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q4cOn-0003my-9Z; Thu, 01 Jun 2023 03:07:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q4cOk-0003mn-SR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Jun 2023 03:07:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q4cOi-0002Oc-IS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Jun 2023 03:07:02 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37A78240027 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2023 09:06:56 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1685603216; bh=Ba9/C0PuMsn8OxyIimDmer4Y+XjVi+bVsONlOGDyeWA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=IuOOxbBJ3wTbnO3YGwovZV5CRAVnWe8jkMdMap5YVdWj2+2WbThPsly1pXv4CzXcL VdMLpERD2JJFEU0iN5+aMT2h8KzedruIu1ssBQ5oEfJTlM7q7q0WqqEi0ANCKpZIch cPV6y2fcVMe5ENCwsIwNNJoyhpyG4lGa8WeV58ePUCkjZtPkvo/y4+SqIvvwelKvKt q/jHqVPY20u5rlHWTKb8bHZJsKONu4LVM6A/TRURGwx0e5X62OJEmWZx0k4XqUczmf 6HomDxKpHyGl2DzMEEE1Ea1YnyzP7Bg7RsMiOjj/qWFEDUKE/qJziY4AyGfVzPTZig d9mRuUTuUKk+A== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4QWxyR52Qnz6tm4; Thu, 1 Jun 2023 09:06:55 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306488 Archived-At: tomas@tuxteam.de writes: >> You will hit an error, sooner or later. We are going to use cache in more >> scenarios. > > I get to keep both parts, I know. I'd definitely prefer an official > switch, but with no code to offer I won't even dare to complain :) Maybe `org-element-cache-persistent' is enough for your needs? This specific part can be disabled. The problem is rather with caching previews and remote images - we previously had to rely on `org-preview-latex-image-directory' and similar case-by-case approaches, but aim to centralize cache storage into unified API. >> If your Emacs is snappier without cache, you likely experience slowdowns >> on long sessions. If so, it is another problem you are just postponing. > > Actually not. Rather around the start. If interested, I can try > to provide data. But I won't bother people with it without a > request. If you are seeing "Reading from ... took ...sec", it may be either disk reading speed (unlikely) or older Emacs where `read' was less optimized. >> > I'd hate to end up with a setup like the monster browsers have >> > these days: an obscure set of sqlite databases you need a huge >> > amount of dedication to extract some slivers of information from. >> >> I am sure we will not. >> >> For multi-session, it is up to you whether to store information in >> SQLite database or in plain text files. The default for >> `multisession-storage' is 'files. I doubt that we are going to change >> this default in the nearest dozen of years (It is Emacs after all :]) > > It is not specifically about SQLite... Well. The current de facto situation is scattered files in your .emacs.d. Not sure how it is better. >> For org-persist, it is designed to store disposable information that can >> be re-generated any time. Even then, org-persist tries to keep the >> index.eln human-readable. > > ...but about complexity. Having a generic cache which works for all > applications will make the code (application code and cache data) > necessarily more inscrutable. OTOH, every little application doing > its own thing is problematic in its own way. As an engineer, you > seldom win ;-) Not sure here. I'd rather say that the situation is an opposite. Have you looked inside index.eln created by org-persist? It is not far from how automatically generated `custom-set-variables' reads. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at