From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2023 11:33:32 +0000 Message-ID: <87y1hukrqr.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83a5udlj47.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5udk1co.fsf@posteo.net> <835y51kslv.fsf@gnu.org> <7a82c524-1aa1-e755-e377-673ebb107a44@gutov.dev> <83r0nok8s4.fsf@gnu.org> <87il90znco.fsf@yahoo.com> <1977fbef-307b-bcf4-9448-64f26916dd65@gutov.dev> <87edjozlqq.fsf@yahoo.com> <43ddad10-49dd-1c49-ebfe-51689780b315@gutov.dev> <87msyciplu.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6okk3oe.fsf@gnu.org> <87edjoindn.fsf@posteo.net> <83bkesjwuk.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkeri1cz.fsf@gnu.org> <833502inw2.fsf@gnu.org> <39c0d8e2-2caf-4368-b0b3-0fbd76fcb731@app.fastmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2584"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "Eli Zaretskii" , "Lynn Winebarger" , "Dmitry Gutov" , "Po Lu" , "Danny Freeman" , "Stefan Kangas" , "Emacs Devel" , "Manuel Uberti" To: "Bozhidar Batsov" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 29 13:34:41 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qawzY-0000TR-E6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 13:34:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qawyg-0004r9-QV; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 07:33:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qawye-0004qs-Qf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 07:33:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qawyY-0006fY-2P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 07:33:44 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAF66240103 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 13:33:34 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693308814; bh=ppqmoOE+OAnESm7ZNqEJl2aP+8gv3oFnL3WjaI2jhSA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=S7UBAs3vQDXK2yg3i1zpe2Ijg/agz+0tBdGv9EN7nU3P0PYHpZ3lSxphqlqfADvac cpIFduI7sYeKs81pyZWRJS934j89R4mQswZtLRqXY3x2lcyRH1BYFgyvMR77CSwKSQ 7ZDJC1GRTzBxIigbS+/kf4kKjGgzb2KgdZCxvQRshQiPemI/xM6pdes6IBes6GaGHW VMdjBov95jf/NS4sY6pGAtWfU0wycQwMy6gCcGyBAQ6CUP5H+NiVLNuIVoy1Zg1Kpp D3uD5XlxYeozi4gC/XdM+nACNw3YYrcZ3QTA4llTrJdBOTTmWZmDyPYkWZ40YWtj2m RKv3Ok4scaGrA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RZlg10Xnlz9rxN; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 13:33:33 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <39c0d8e2-2caf-4368-b0b3-0fbd76fcb731@app.fastmail.com> (Bozhidar Batsov's message of "Tue, 29 Aug 2023 10:33:59 +0300") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309493 Archived-At: "Bozhidar Batsov" writes: >> That's formally true, but doing this over the objections of the >> original authors would be IMO rude, and I would not agree to that >> lightly. > > I agree that'd be rude. I also think that'd be quite confusing for the > end users and will make some of the operations (e.g. submission of > bugs) a total mess. Neither the Clojure, nor the Emacs communities are > big enough to engage lightly in time-wasting activities. > > And, I'll say it once more - in case this was missed in the > conversations. Personal misgivings about the mechanics of Emacs's > development aside, I think it's not prudent to keep growing its core, > which is already huge. Obviously it's up to the Emacs developers to > decide what to do, but I'd be moving more things into packages and > bundling less things with Emacs. You might have seen this trend in > some programming languages - e.g. Ruby has slimmed down its core a lot > and this helped channel the efforts of the core team. > > I think by now pretty much every user of an editor or a programming > language is used to installing packages to augment the core > functionality, so I'm not buying the argument that we need to have > more things OOTB. IMO the core of Emacs should consist of fewer, but > truly essential packages. > > Someone mentioned it'd be nice if Emacs suggested packages to install > for certain (unsupported OOTB) file types and I think that'd be a nice > way to help with package discovery. Perhaps packages can just mention > this in their metadata? Most of the time this would be duplicating information, since most packages already have a ;;;###autoload (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.foo\\'" . foo-mode)) in their body somewhere, that can be scraped. I proposed doing this in the context of updating the archive-contents file format to address a few issues that people have been raising for a couple of years now. Of course this doesn't work when users work in environments without any internet access or their access to {GNU,NonGNU} ELPA is restricted by a firewall. I don't know if it is points like these that motivate adding functionality directly to the core?