From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request to distribute Casual packages on NonGNU ELPA Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 20:15:36 +0000 Message-ID: <87y13fqyl3.fsf@posteo.net> References: <8B0830CA-6995-454C-BC5A-E4247E259CE9@gmail.com> <87a5fvsi0x.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14675"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier To: Charles Choi Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 25 22:16:11 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1stYQk-0003hJ-UU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2024 22:16:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1stYQJ-00021k-Lz; Wed, 25 Sep 2024 16:15:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1stYQI-00020t-86 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2024 16:15:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1stYQG-00039D-6X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2024 16:15:41 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2480240101 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2024 22:15:37 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1727295337; bh=yDCVU22KYmQftMRnF8g1tCuJtEc5VEjgdE37ZuzRZhY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=cCgv4Q29MEKp7KrBgKminXgpKEpBytj/ySGJAIndZ12cmPYDOz3P4qVN0uq61xHZq 13i+Rp8vQFiVy8f3mxvhBDXig8SBZ+GvJuRhhhzCXYuzhlN1QIEh/kt6TDXSO+SLm4 QuuRpz52TKuZwsx8KvwGy1NR34h5gC9jbUsQH5wlI51GS7APEE8ZWwyZJ80cPw1avu z/DRH1Ze8tlc39aesUuxqbnCIkqLZX7viIkVr86tcWJkBWf/nblvPndfFDUO1KdIHz n+H2gy1BY5PCC9dUHZiLmiPurHpyf1X27gn3ca4O1pVF2lz2IqoIO5lrmDZAXUGGBM CiTMY4qBfiFIQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4XDSf06Wzdz6tw7; Wed, 25 Sep 2024 22:15:36 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Charles Choi's message of "Wed, 25 Sep 2024 13:05:22 -0700") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM OpenPGP: id=philipk@posteo.net; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-email/philipk@posteo.net"; preference=signencrypt Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:324088 Archived-At: Charles Choi writes: > Philip -=20 > > Thanks for responding. My answers to your questions as follows: > >> I haven't tried the code yet, and reviewing these will take some time, >> but my understanding that this is reinventing a lot of Emacs >> functionality using Transient, right? > > The Casual packages should be viewed as user interface porcelains to > existing Emacs functionality and takes great effort to not "reinvent" > nor re-implement existing commands and their associated variables. No > functions are advised by Casual. The Casual packages do however > re-imagine the interactive user interfaces to said commands and > variables as keyboard-driven menus. Sorry, I was not clear: Read the "Reinventing" as "Rebinding". And IIUC then this is the case. >> Do you have any preferred or recommended order in which you think that I >> should review the code? From the names I am guessing that casual-lib is >> a dependency that the others share? > > casual-lib is a common library to all the Casual packages. It is > recommended that this package be reviewed first. casual-suite is an > umbrella package that includes all Casual packages and as such should > be reviewed last. > > At current there are 13 Casual packages to review. Here's a > recommended order of review that skews toward the simpler packages to > be reviewed earlier. That said the only strict guidance is to review > casual-lib first and casual-suite last. > > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-lib/ > > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-isearch/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-symbol-overlay/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-avy/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-re-builder/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-dired/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-bookmarks/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-calc/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-ibuffer/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-info/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-agenda/ > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-editkit/ > > https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual-suite/ Thanks. >> Another question that I can only raise now as I haven't looked at the >> code in greater detail yet is how deep the transient dependency goes. >> Would it be possible to re-use quick-help instead? I had sketched >> something along those lines a few months back, where a map could bind a >> pseudo-key to return a `help-quick-sections' like structure. The >> advantage is that you only have to list commands and descriptions, >> without trying to bind key again inside of Transient, as I understand it >> being the case right now. > > The Casual packages use Transient to implement keyboard-driven menus > with opinionated bindings. I consider these binding decisions to be > core to the value of Casual in that they support a truly hand-crafted > user experience. I have no interest in refactoring their behavior to > use quick-help, nor in maintaining strict conformance to existing > default command bindings. That said, many existing default command > bindings are supported in Casual. If any of these positions are a > block to publication on NonGNU ELPA, I will retract my request for > review. Hopefully though this is not the case as I have the greatest > enthusiasm to see these packages being reviewed and published on ELPA. No, none of this is blocking. I just find it worthwhile to discuss some more foundational questions before adding a package to ELPA, as an outsides perspective can sometimes help to uncover questions that an author might not have considered until now. > > All my best - > > Charles > > =E2=80=94 > Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D. > kickingvegas@gmail.com > > > --=20 Philip Kaludercic on siskin