From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs-devel Digest, Vol 52, Issue 61 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 09:50:29 +0900 Message-ID: <87wsl0rbqi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20080607125159.8A74F9F05B4@grelber.thyrsus.com> <20080607132037.GA21979@thyrsus.com> <87r6b9b9xn.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1212885496 22282 80.91.229.12 (8 Jun 2008 00:38:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 00:38:16 +0000 (UTC) To: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 08 02:38:57 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K58vx-00087q-7V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jun 2008 02:38:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43097 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K58vA-0002o9-65 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:38:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K58v5-0002nm-Mi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:38:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K58v2-0002nO-6q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:38:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=57888 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K58v2-0002nL-1h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:38:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:41756) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K58v1-0006a5-Rp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:38:00 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67CC08015; Sun, 8 Jun 2008 09:37:57 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4BA0E1A25C3; Sun, 8 Jun 2008 09:50:29 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <87r6b9b9xn.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-Mailer: VM ?bug? under XEmacs 21.5.21 (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:98649 Archived-At: Miles Bader writes: > "Eric S. Raymond" writes: > > I have been unable to work on vc.el for about *two weeks* now because > > the recommended "make maintainer-clean; configure; make bootstrap" > > consistently fails with this: > > It never occurred to you to _say something_ during those "two weeks"? This is starting to look like a duck hunt, what with Glenn just posted that people who do say something are hurting his feelings. Isn't it time to stop blaming the beta testers and subsystem developers, who are *victims* of build breakage, whether it lies with CVS or a recent change to a Makefile? It's not so hard to add .PHONY force-cvs-sanity-so-yall-will-kwitcherbitchin-for-heavens-sake force-cvs-sanity-so-yall-will-kwitcherbitchin-for-heavens-sake: if test -e CVS -a ! -e .cvs_geeks_don_need_yer_steenkin_help; \ then echo "I want to update CVS, type N to omit once"; \ echo "type X to omit and inhibit permanently"; \ echo "type anything else to 'cvs update -dP'"; \ read -n 1 -t 5 NOCVSUPDATEDP; \ case $NOCVSUPDATEDP in \ [nN] ) echo "Not updating CVS, continuing";; \ [xX] ) touch .cvs_geeks_don_need_yer_steenkin_help; \ echo "Consider 'update -dP' in ~/.cvsrc"; \ sleep 3;; \ * ) echo "Logging to cvs-update.log"; \ cvs update -dP >cvs-update.log 2>&1;; \ esac; \ unset NOCVSUPDATEDP fi; fie; fo; fum to the Makefile, is it? And add it as a prerequisite for the "bootstrap" target? (I hereby dedicate the above stanza to the public domain. Don't cut and paste it, untabify probably got to it.) A more radical suggestion: package system. This is what a package system is for, preventing propagation of local breakage into global lossage. D'oh. I admit, I'm quite shocked that Alan and Eric didn't know about the "update -d" flag, and rather surprised that this issue has not come up in the same way for XEmacs, since our package tree is always in this kind of flux. The only thing is that we have a canonical reference, http://www.xemacs.org/Develop/cvsaccess.html, for use of CVS, which recommends putting "update -dP" in .cvsrc.[1] Most places in XEmacs docs that mention use of CVS point to that, so (I guess) most XEmacs folks who use CVS have long since seen it and done it. Footnotes: [1] It may be that it happened in the great package reorganization, and long since became part of the XEmacs culture. But I don't recall newbies to XEmacs development ever having much trouble with it, either.