From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johannes Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:41:39 +0200 Message-ID: <87wsje37rg.fsf@saeurebad.de> References: <36366a980807101702r5677d096g8e62ef5b3e278868@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <20080714195651.GF3445@muc.de> <487C5FA3.4070603@emf.net> <87zloggji9.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878wvxxkn6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ej5oz4pb.fsf@saeurebad.de> <87vdyzxype.fsf@saeurebad.de> <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <87ej5nxew2.fsf@saeurebad.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216698148 32405 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2008 03:42:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:42:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 22 05:43:16 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KL8mQ-0008Fr-NC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:43:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38180 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KL8lX-0003fB-Bl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:42:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KL8lT-0003ej-1p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:42:15 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KL8lS-0003eF-HT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:42:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55568 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KL8lS-0003e9-Ev for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:42:14 -0400 Original-Received: from saeurebad.de ([85.214.36.134]:45289) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KL8lM-0000Gu-Ji; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:42:09 -0400 Original-Received: by saeurebad.de (Postfix, from userid 107) id A31FA4A0002; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:42:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (217-68-166-249.dynamic.primacom.net [217.68.166.249]) by saeurebad.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71C72F0006; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:42:05 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:47:49 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.3 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101158 Archived-At: Hi, Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Johannes Weiner >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:37:17 +0200 >> Cc: lord@emf.net, rms@gnu.org, drobinow@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, >> acm@muc.de, Miles Bader >> >> To be honest, I couldn't give the slightest about w32. It's a pile of >> crap that should have never seen the light of day, all political issues >> left aside and I, FWIW, would not consider it when designing software. > > Such arrogant nonsense can only be forgiven if it's spoken out of > utter ignorance. Last time you took a good look at a Windows system > was probably in 1998. Wake up! a lot has changed since then. > > Nowadays, w32 systems don't fall short of Gnu/Linux in any aspect: > stability, usability, user-friendliness, etc. And the current trend > in Gnu/Linux systems to mimic the Windows UI, feel, and touch bring > more and more the worst parts of Windows to Gnu/Linux systems, to the > degree that in a very near future they will be indistinguishable, > anyway. I can use a stripped-down version of GNU/Linux. I neither use KDE nor Gnome for example. A lot of the time I chose to a bare screen session on a VT without running X at all. But I could start a full-blown desktop environment at an instant, if I want to. This modularity I have not seen in Windows so far and I doubt it will get there soon. On top of all this modularity, people now start to put blocks on top of it that make it look like Windows or OS X, maybe. But I can still chose which blocks I want to use. If people like using a complete desktop GNU/Linux distribution that mimics Windows' look and feel, that's their choice. And it's only ONE FLAVOR of the possibilities you have. > And if you are interested in OS architectural design, then Linux is > simply boring: a huge monolithic kernel that came straight out of the > dinosaur 70-s. Whereas modern Windows systems are in this respect > everything the Hurd wanted to be: microkernel with many services > running in user space. Linux is a fully-functioning, widely tested and bleeding-edge technology operating system I can study the source code of. What is your point? Advertising a blackblox by telling me what cool stuff it contains (you just have to believe!)? > Too bad it is under-documented (but then who has ever heard about, let > alone seen, good internals documentation in the Free Software world?). > > Posix is only one way to go, it is not the only way. Saying I don't > care for anything but Posix is like sticking to a single programming > language: you will be a poorer programmer, because some paradigms > evade you completely. That is certainly true. And I wouldn't mind seeing other good approaches to operating system design. Hannes