From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Guerry Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:32:23 +0200 Message-ID: <87wsjd5wc8.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <4884DC7F.6060406@gmail.com> <819feff4-76e3-4bf8-9ece-7b47f099efc2@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <87hcaiiatp.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87fxq1rhbf.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216769595 3291 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2008 23:33:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:33:15 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 23 01:34:04 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLRMm-0003UG-RT for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:34:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58407 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLRLt-0004yJ-DF for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:33:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLRLN-0004qK-C2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:32:33 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLRLK-0004nN-FE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:32:32 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=35942 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLRLK-0004nD-4Z for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:32:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.134.187]:5108) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLRLJ-0008EQ-Fb for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:32:29 -0400 Original-Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i2so4274436mue.6 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:32:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:sender; bh=I19G9TB42nFbRPb6S0UyW/hc/6YLUIQddhPHrFvhdXM=; b=Nok8m4RRtB2Npjt5nySBCs7RAz8ERaukZbvCIi6VxlTH0t+hRZjERtAi4ABssYHu2C 1f9pYow8eF4jUuv7eqDqPtByMw0ORNNSrbPIwX6SUN0xby7eSyGNRPIA/ENV+8GmQ0SB rwLmjO5nUBvJQ/f9HNcV6NmzlmYqLgkSczsMA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:sender; b=Lo1ILK6tL8w1NccqUHro12vfpnW7AcnWAKE9TEeXshX/8srLvMEUYURVyvi2uc1Jrh TvX/qTZkvgPur1YLftPmwiu0v5XkEeKZO1wUNfdi3ocFTVC+kiMrIUrxu0V2DbUFMkGZ +vopLcAi3hAq6pAAtleK0uoIVPxzl7woxW2Sk= Original-Received: by 10.103.207.18 with SMTP id j18mr4123561muq.21.1216769548289; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from bzg.ath.cx ( [90.35.197.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j10sm20222850muh.18.2008.07.22.16.32.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by bzg.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 958D0158165; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:32:23 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Juanma Barranquero's message of "Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:58:37 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110009 (No Gnus v0.9) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55832 Archived-At: "Juanma Barranquero" writes: > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 18:53, Bastien Guerry wrote: > >> Yes, as long as the terminology matches the underlying concepts. > > The underlying concept is called a "buffer" because... well, just > because it has always been called that on Emacs. "scratchpad" would > have been equally valid, or "workspace" (we're talking more than 20 > years ago, before the current wave of IDEs), or "temporary store" or > who knows what. But we're not discussing about what could have been done 20 years ago, are we? Discussing the terminology today, my point is that it might be risky to "import" some terms just because they are commonly used elsewhere. If they give the right representation of the thing they refer to, why not. >> For example, replacing "buffer" by "workspace" in the manual would not >> only be a huge work, it would also be misleading: because you would soon >> have to deal with expectations that people already have with the notion >> of "workspace". > > Why the fixation with "workspace"? Because it's an example of what could seem to be a good candidate for replacing buffer. But I think that the representations an Eclipse user has of a workspace doesn't designate the notion of a buffer adequately. > We're bound to stick with history. But it is nice (and perhaps even > useful, in some way) to think what benefit would we gain by using a > more common terminology. At least that will compel us to choose more > adequate names for new features. Sure - I'm just pointing possible pittfalls. >> I do react about terminology because I think such a discussion is never >> about terminology only. It's also about the concepts behind. If Emacs >> were more file-centric, then I wouldn't understand why there is no >> shortcut (sic!) to Open/Close. > > I cannot speak on behalf of others, but certainly I'm talking > exclusively about terminology. Okay, but terminology and concepts are often intertwingled. That's all the fun of such discussions. >> Ok, history always comes with some arbitrary choice. But it's hard to >> move from an arbitrary choice with a non-arbitrary reason. > > It's hard to move from an arbitrary, deeply ingrained choice, even if > it'd be useful to do so. If it's too hard, it can't be that useful... -- Bastien