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From: Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:31:35 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87wsj98008.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: mailman.15439.1217062193.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org

"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> Tim X wrote:
>>>> I think the real source of issues regarding terminology is actually more
>>>> a reflection of laziness.
>>>
>>> It might be true in some cases, but please be careful when using such
>>> statements. The laziness may equally well be in your side in that you do
>>> not try to understand all details well enough when it comes to why some
>>> things matter.
>>>
>> and you tell me to be careful about statements!
>
> Sorry, but I am not perfect at that. Some things are a bit difficult to
> express.
>

That's OK. I think I know what you mean.

>> You know nothing of me
>
> Yes, I no know more than what I have been reading from you here.
>

Which has been part genuine, part devil's advocate and part frustration
after seeing the same go round and round again and again. 

>> For the record, my comment on laziness is based on the observation that 
>>
>> 1. The majority of people who I've assisted, either directly or via
>> forums like this newsgroup have, when asked, admitted they have not read
>> the manual or run the tutorial because they couldn't be bothered or
>> don't like reading manuals. That to me is essentially laziness - they
>> would rather send a question to this group than bother doing the work to
>> find out for themselves. 
>
> It is my experience too, but my conclusion is different.
>
> In some cases I have found it to be laziness, but in other cases it is more
> of constructive critic - expressed in a way that some people might find a
> bit extreme.
>

Hmm. Can't say I can see it like that. For me, to be constructive, it
should include (in the case of free software), constructive action and
not what all too often just comes across as moaning from people who want
it changed, but who are not prepared to actually do anything
constructive to make the change happen. All too often, there seems to be
this strong attitude that all yuo need to do is moan about it in a
newsgroup and somebody else will jump up and fix things. While this may
be OK in commercial systems where the vendor wants to maintain sales, it
just doesn't work with free software that is maintained and extended by
volunteers. To some extent, rightly or wrongly, I have the attitude,
step up or shut up. BTW, this is not directed at any particular
individual. 

Tim

-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au


  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-07-26  9:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 170+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-07-21 18:59 basic question: going back to dired Ben Aurel
2008-07-21 23:21 ` Bastien
     [not found] ` <mailman.15133.1216682503.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22  6:04   ` Xah
2008-07-22  8:26     ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 11:29       ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 16:53         ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 22:58           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 23:32             ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 23:38               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 23:56                 ` Bastien Guerry
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15212.1216767522.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24  7:46             ` Miles Bader
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15157.1216726173.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 16:13         ` Evans Winner
2008-07-22 22:49           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-23  9:46           ` Tim X
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15210.1216766981.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24  7:39             ` Miles Bader
2008-07-24  9:04               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15333.1216890300.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 10:38                 ` Miles Bader
2008-07-24 12:36                 ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:38                   ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15354.1216910341.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  4:38                     ` Tim X
2008-07-26  6:18                       ` William Case
     [not found]                       ` <mailman.15437.1217053103.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  8:58                         ` Tim X
2008-07-22  9:46     ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 11:22       ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]         ` <op.ueoy5npciz1hxh@el-juanek>
2008-07-22 12:14           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 13:56             ` Dan Davison
2008-07-22 15:07               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]             ` <op.ueo4z1peiz1hxh@el-juanek>
2008-07-22 15:03               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 17:14                 ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-24  1:38                 ` Juanma
2008-07-24  8:42                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-24  9:28                     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-24  9:41                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 21:43                     ` Juanma
2008-07-24 21:49                       ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-24 22:34                         ` Juanma
2008-07-24 22:39                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 23:07                             ` Juanma
2008-07-24 23:13                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 23:42                                 ` Juanma
2008-07-24 23:45                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.15313.1216863499.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 12:30                   ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:30                     ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.15352.1216909820.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  2:23                       ` Tim X
2008-07-31  0:04                         ` Sean Sieger
2008-07-31  9:21                         ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15179.1216738989.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 15:25                 ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-24  7:19                 ` Miles Bader
2008-07-24  9:02                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-24 11:12                     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-24 12:32                   ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:31                     ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.15353.1216909918.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 15:19                       ` xraysmalevich
2008-07-24 15:43                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 16:03                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-25 14:13                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  4:33                       ` Tim X
2008-07-31  9:27                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-31 11:22                           ` Juan Manuel Menéndez Bellón
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.15637.1217496478.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31 13:59                           ` Tim X
2008-07-31 14:43                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-31 14:56                               ` Thierry Volpiatto
2008-07-31 15:03                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-31 15:12                                   ` Thierry Volpiatto
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.15652.1217516352.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-04 10:48                                 ` Sacha Chua
2008-08-04 14:30                                   ` Thierry Volpiatto
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15332.1216890172.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 17:59                     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15160.1216728865.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 12:34             ` Miles Bader
2008-07-22 12:52               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 13:47                 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-22 14:03                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23  1:29                     ` Kevin Rodgers
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15173.1216735457.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 14:50                     ` xraysmalevich
2008-07-22 14:44               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 17:06                 ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 23:04                   ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15176.1216737886.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-23 10:25                 ` Tim X
2008-07-23 11:09                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23 11:11                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-23 11:39                     ` Bastien
2008-07-23 11:44                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23 12:34                         ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-23 12:56                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23 13:34                             ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-23 13:41                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23 13:49                                 ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-23 15:26                                 ` Bastien
2008-07-23 15:40                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.15259.1216813201.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 12:18                       ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:15                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-26 11:06                           ` Bastien
2008-07-24 15:30                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.15356.1216913461.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  2:17                           ` Tim X
2008-07-26  6:32                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.15438.1217053962.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  8:31                               ` Tim X
2008-07-26  8:49                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  9:24                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  9:37                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.15439.1217062193.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  9:31                                   ` Tim X [this message]
2008-07-26 10:43                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15256.1216811364.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24  9:47                     ` Tim X
2008-07-24 10:56                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15257.1216811483.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 12:17                     ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:09                       ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-26 11:06                         ` Bastien
2008-07-31  9:40                           ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]                       ` <mailman.15349.1216908598.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  1:59                         ` Tim X
2008-07-31  9:00                           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-23 10:16             ` Tim X
2008-07-23 10:59               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15255.1216810786.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24  9:39                 ` Tim X
2008-07-22 16:58         ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 23:03           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 23:49             ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 23:56               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15213.1216767793.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-25  4:48             ` p.daniels
2008-07-25  5:31             ` p.daniels
2008-07-26 11:06               ` Bastien
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15156.1216725748.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 11:50         ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 14:42           ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15175.1216737770.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 14:49             ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 15:53               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15182.1216742022.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 16:21                 ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 16:51                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15185.1216745488.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 21:47                     ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 12:50     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-22 13:05     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-22 20:44     ` Xah
2008-07-22 22:00       ` Bastien
2008-07-24  1:30         ` Juanma
2008-07-22 23:21       ` Xiao-Yong Jin
2008-07-22 23:43         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15215.1216768919.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 23:36         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2008-07-23  8:29           ` Alexey Pustyntsev
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15249.1216802538.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-23  9:57             ` Thorsten Bonow
2008-07-24 11:03       ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15341.1216897420.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 11:21         ` Phil Carmody
     [not found]     ` <mailman.15164.1216731108.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31  8:55       ` Xah
     [not found] <mailman.15123.1216681940.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22  5:56 ` Xah
2008-07-22  8:23   ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 11:13     ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 16:46       ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 22:51         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 11:01   ` Xah
     [not found]   ` <mailman.15143.1216715014.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31  9:57     ` Xah
2008-07-31 12:28       ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-07-31 13:37         ` Xah
2008-08-01  8:05         ` Nikolaj Schumacher
     [not found]         ` <mailman.15691.1217577959.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-01 11:15           ` Xah
2008-08-01 15:23             ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-08-01 11:40           ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-08-01 21:43             ` Cor Gest
2008-07-31 14:27       ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-08-06 20:38       ` Juanma
2008-08-06 20:57         ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]         ` <mailman.15958.1218056266.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-08 14:07           ` Chris McMahan
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15955.1218055101.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-07  5:12         ` Tim X
2008-07-22  7:14 ` Miles Bader
2008-07-22 10:58 ` nakkaya
2008-07-22 12:12   ` Thierry Volpiatto
2008-07-26 13:06 ` Colin S. Miller
     [not found]   ` <2e5864060807311010macf1b5bq439a73fc431fac04@mail.gmail.com>
2008-07-31 20:26     ` Colin S. Miller
     [not found] <mailman.15641.1217503359.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31 12:37 ` Chris McMahan
2008-07-31 13:04   ` Xah
2008-07-31 14:35     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]     ` <mailman.15650.1217514954.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31 15:54       ` Xah
2008-07-31 16:45         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]         ` <mailman.15660.1217522719.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31 17:05           ` Xah
2008-07-31 17:45             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-31 19:00             ` Sean Sieger

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