From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul R Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: emacs-w3m question Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 11:29:50 +0100 Message-ID: <87wsffsuap.fsf@gmail.com> References: <74160b46-e541-436a-a776-c8bd53d6cd55@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <1f28a20e-0c9f-4478-a85c-27ae40ed7fc9@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com> <4d476218-bd76-4d41-8a12-1428dfba9e9b@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <107214be-5812-4519-bc29-a52f391f09a3@v13g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <2988b05b-9cc3-4407-a09f-cc334ad8f3c2@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <20081107100424.GA2707@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1226055242 5990 80.91.229.12 (7 Nov 2008 10:54:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:54:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Xah To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 07 11:55:04 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KyOzV-00014l-5S for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 11:55:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53217 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KyOyN-0008UV-TG for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:53:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KyObG-00076Y-2r for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:29:58 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KyObE-00074j-AR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:29:57 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=58754 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KyObD-000749-LE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:29:55 -0500 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.159]:7622) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KyObD-0007PJ-Oh for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:29:56 -0500 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so966072fgb.30 for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:29:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject:references :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=q8t21/c+p4nYjicgY7QyHq8ladoRYYsG32YSRXZmKKk=; b=YSkhF08gH8XvwJJ0H3JmuaOIRr+HMLbDAlRgAXUNd/3bU5O+g3RypxAdxa6vmKUH2d pmigOnKTsDRRjG12xHWJCo956hUhIqhqCnFgvX1diq84XwcQEUUoxDh+bTzuk3JFmar2 gpUWD5D84XCa0nXl0cLwoT5TQsnJeHkT1AALk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; b=s3zGmqoB/qh3qGg66FeIv5pJgwbxA2e/+iExmVqq7HPaW0wFMDdNe9aazqj3mQalfZ tDXICYo2+HuJBT8kLRTWRk39BvFRJgax2VpoASJUOKL8aIlf+O7wut+DTpB9CTopwYlO YKc2SgUC5xBDTwpvrELLi0nhub7B1VqVrU18c= Original-Received: by 10.86.60.14 with SMTP id i14mr3766389fga.70.1226053793256; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:29:53 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from ubuT42 (pdc35-1-82-242-132-111.fbx.proxad.net [82.242.132.111]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 3sm4192999fge.3.2008.11.07.02.29.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:29:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20081107100424.GA2707@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:04:24 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:59552 Archived-At: Hello, > > A happy post-USA-election day to you, Xah! >> it is fantastic that Obama won! Alan> And yesterday in Scotland, the Labour party, the party of British Alan> government, held on to their parliamentary seat for Glenrothes, Alan> against the strong expectation that the Scottish National Party, Alan> the party of Scottish government, would win it. And french president, currently European Union president for 2 months more, recently gave a speech in which he said that he does not want to leave this european seat when time comes (IIRC, Tchek Republic is supposed to take over after France in january ). He argued that given the "current crisis", the european presidency ought to be strong, very wise and skilled, hence he is the only one able to do the job (still according to him). Cock really is a good emblem for our country, as it is the only known animal that keeps singing even with both foot in his own poo :) Alan> But we've had this discussion several times. Modern isn't Alan> necessarily better. Modern is easier for newbies familiar with Alan> other programs to learn, but there's no evidence that, once Alan> learnt, it's any better than the classic Emacs UI. Do you address Alan> this matter anywhere in your online essays? My own experience is Alan> that Emacs's classic UI is much better. One reason to believe Alan> Emacs UI should be superior is that it was developed by the people Alan> who use it, for their own use. Although I agree with that, I think it is important to keep in mind that emacs frighten a lot of people when they first try it, and a lot of those people may drop it forever because of this first impression. I think newcomers are young and have time to realize what bindings are convenients or not in everyday use, and emacs should not impose, by default, a map that makes it practicaly unusable to anybody coming from the "CUA world". Yes, they can learn. No, they don't want to learn before trying, and I can understand that. -- Paul