From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jason Earl Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bzr repository ready? Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:30:46 -0700 Message-ID: <87ws1hujh5.fsf@notengoamigos.org> References: <87einvxy9c.fsf@red-bean.com> <20091118230952.GB908@muc.de> <87my2jw05z.fsf@red-bean.com> <83skc9pbf7.fsf@gnu.org> <87iqd5vw5n.fsf@red-bean.com> <877htl53tc.fsf@telefonica.net> <87ws1ku7zd.fsf@red-bean.com> <87hbso4s13.fsf@telefonica.net> <83aaygoy90.fsf@gnu.org> <87vdh36d48.fsf@telefonica.net> <831vjrptha.fsf@gnu.org> <87einr63b6.fsf@telefonica.net> <83y6lzo9e7.fsf@gnu.org> <871vjr750o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87zl6fnnu2.fsf@notengoamigos.org> <87aaye3nba.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87r5rqm7gm.fsf@notengoamigos.org> <87skc5spso.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259004696 26150 80.91.229.12 (23 Nov 2009 19:31:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:31:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. 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X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117610 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > Jason Earl writes: > > > On the one hand you chide me for adding a slight change to the bzr > > I did not. I criticized you for adding a pile of vocabulary without > explaining it. I have re-read my responses and you are absolutely correct. Heck, even if you weren't correct I should have been more civil. Please forgive me. > > If the criticism of bzr is that it doesn't have colocated branches > > requiring several instances of "make bootstrap" then here is how > > you solve it. > > No. It's a *warning* that dVCS fans, of whom there are several on > this list, often *will* recommend a naive and inefficient "bzr branch" > as the first step in any workflow. =C3=93scar Fuentes in a related > subthread admits to doing exactly in a different context (cloning a > remote branch vs remote file copying a tarball), and the wiki still > does so. That is a bad idea for many tasks, which really should use > alternative workflows. But they *are* alternative workflows, and are > *not* explained on the Emacs wiki. That makes sense. I have certainly experimented with enough pathologically bad bzr workflows. Using the right workflow can make a big difference, and I would be the first to admit that the "proper" bzr workflow might not be readily apparent. > The rest of your post is very much what I was looking for. Well done! You are welcome. > One quibble: Fah, like I said, I re-read my posts. You are being generous here. > > On the other hand if you really like git's colocated branches bzr > > can be easily set up to approximate them. > > No, it is *not* easy, unless you use a definition of "approximate" > that will be unacceptable to many git fans. Agreed, the "lightweight > checkout plus bzr switch" workflow has similar efficiency properties > for most tasks, but there's a lot more to the git model than just fast > "git checkout". I think it goes without saying that git fans are unlikely to ever think too highly of bzr. Once you have learned how to use git effectively everything else is a step down. The bzr or hg devs probably have some arguments to the contrary, but generally speaking git's weakness is that it is hard to learn to use. Personally, I think that git's insistence on colocated branches is a large part of what makes it hard to learn. Learning to juggle branches in git certainly confused the heck out of me. It is somewhat ironic to me that I have come full-circle and I now tend to do my work in a lightweight checkout that I point at the right branch with bzr switch. In at least one project that workspace isn't even inside the repository. My workspace is at ~/project-name and my repository full of branches is tucked away at ~/repos/project-name/branches . A fancy aliasing plugin for bzr that automatically mapped commands like "bzr switch foo" to "bzr switch $HIDDENREPO/project-name/foo" would get me even closer to approximating git's colocated branches. The truly scary thing (to me anyway) is that I now can see *why* git has the UI that it does. Now that I have learned to use bzr, I could probably wrap my head around git :). Jason