From: Jason Earl <jearl@notengoamigos.org>
To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
Cc: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>,
emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: bzr repository ready?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:30:46 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87ws1hujh5.fsf@notengoamigos.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 87skc5spso.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> writes:
> Jason Earl writes:
>
> > On the one hand you chide me for adding a slight change to the bzr
>
> I did not. I criticized you for adding a pile of vocabulary without
> explaining it.
I have re-read my responses and you are absolutely correct. Heck, even
if you weren't correct I should have been more civil. Please forgive
me.
> > If the criticism of bzr is that it doesn't have colocated branches
> > requiring several instances of "make bootstrap" then here is how
> > you solve it.
>
> No. It's a *warning* that dVCS fans, of whom there are several on
> this list, often *will* recommend a naive and inefficient "bzr branch"
> as the first step in any workflow. Óscar Fuentes in a related
> subthread admits to doing exactly in a different context (cloning a
> remote branch vs remote file copying a tarball), and the wiki still
> does so. That is a bad idea for many tasks, which really should use
> alternative workflows. But they *are* alternative workflows, and are
> *not* explained on the Emacs wiki.
That makes sense. I have certainly experimented with enough
pathologically bad bzr workflows. Using the right workflow can make a
big difference, and I would be the first to admit that the "proper" bzr
workflow might not be readily apparent.
> The rest of your post is very much what I was looking for. Well done!
You are welcome.
> One quibble:
Fah, like I said, I re-read my posts. You are being generous here.
> > On the other hand if you really like git's colocated branches bzr
> > can be easily set up to approximate them.
>
> No, it is *not* easy, unless you use a definition of "approximate"
> that will be unacceptable to many git fans. Agreed, the "lightweight
> checkout plus bzr switch" workflow has similar efficiency properties
> for most tasks, but there's a lot more to the git model than just fast
> "git checkout".
I think it goes without saying that git fans are unlikely to ever think
too highly of bzr. Once you have learned how to use git effectively
everything else is a step down. The bzr or hg devs probably have some
arguments to the contrary, but generally speaking git's weakness is that
it is hard to learn to use.
Personally, I think that git's insistence on colocated branches is a
large part of what makes it hard to learn. Learning to juggle branches
in git certainly confused the heck out of me. It is somewhat ironic to
me that I have come full-circle and I now tend to do my work in a
lightweight checkout that I point at the right branch with bzr switch.
In at least one project that workspace isn't even inside the repository.
My workspace is at ~/project-name and my repository full of branches is
tucked away at ~/repos/project-name/branches .
A fancy aliasing plugin for bzr that automatically mapped commands like
"bzr switch foo" to "bzr switch $HIDDENREPO/project-name/foo" would get
me even closer to approximating git's colocated branches. The truly
scary thing (to me anyway) is that I now can see *why* git has the UI
that it does.
Now that I have learned to use bzr, I could probably wrap my head around
git :).
Jason
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-11-23 19:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 346+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2009-01-04 12:42 Moving to bzr? dhruva
2009-01-04 13:35 ` Christian Faulhammer
2009-01-04 13:50 ` David Reitter
2009-01-04 15:41 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-04 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-01-05 3:50 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-01-05 4:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-01-05 5:49 ` dhruva
2009-01-05 6:35 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-01-05 22:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-01-05 23:37 ` Chetan Pandya
2009-01-06 12:30 ` Richard M Stallman
2009-01-06 13:14 ` Paul R
2009-01-06 14:32 ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-01-06 14:51 ` Will Farrington
2009-01-06 4:29 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-01-06 20:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-01-06 20:38 ` Juanma Barranquero
2009-01-06 22:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-01-06 22:14 ` Juanma Barranquero
2009-01-06 22:58 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-07 0:53 ` Juanma Barranquero
2009-01-07 3:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-01-07 3:50 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-07 8:31 ` Juanma Barranquero
2009-01-07 11:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-01-07 12:00 ` Juanma Barranquero
2009-01-07 12:23 ` Juanma Barranquero
2009-01-06 23:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-01-07 0:56 ` Juanma Barranquero
[not found] ` <87zli4jcc4.fsf@workhorse.earlhome>
2009-01-07 3:41 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] ` <87vdsrjcco.fsf@workhorse.earlhome>
2009-01-09 1:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-01-18 22:56 ` bzr repository ready? (was: Moving to bzr?) Karl Fogel
[not found] ` <87eiyy3lag.fsf@notengoamigos.org>
2009-01-21 5:11 ` bzr repository ready? Karl Fogel
2009-01-21 9:32 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-01-22 5:59 ` Karl Fogel
[not found] ` <874ozs34c6.fsf@notengoamigos.org>
2009-01-22 6:15 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-22 8:24 ` dhruva
2009-01-22 14:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-01-23 17:00 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-24 4:21 ` dhruva
2009-01-24 12:07 ` [Savannah-help-public] " Sylvain Beucler
2009-10-14 0:49 ` Daniel Clemente
2009-10-14 3:00 ` Karl Fogel
2009-10-24 19:38 ` Chong Yidong
2009-10-24 23:57 ` Karl Fogel
2009-10-30 23:38 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-09 16:53 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-09 23:56 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-11 22:45 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-11 23:06 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-12 2:34 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-12 4:16 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-12 4:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-12 4:40 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-12 15:21 ` Chong Yidong
2009-11-12 15:39 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-12 17:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-12 18:01 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-12 20:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-12 23:37 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-13 0:14 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-13 9:38 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-13 10:35 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-13 13:36 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-13 0:13 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-13 1:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-13 14:33 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-13 14:47 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-13 15:08 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-13 17:47 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-14 10:45 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-14 14:54 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-14 20:11 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-12 18:19 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-12 12:01 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-12 15:03 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-12 18:14 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-12 13:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-12 18:31 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-12 20:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-12 20:57 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-12 22:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-12 22:51 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-13 9:42 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-13 11:11 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-18 22:29 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-18 23:08 ` Chong Yidong
2009-11-19 3:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-18 23:09 ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 5:31 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-20 13:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-20 19:22 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-20 19:34 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-11-20 20:39 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-20 21:20 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-11-20 22:46 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 5:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-21 5:34 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 6:59 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-21 20:08 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-22 23:58 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-23 5:58 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-23 6:41 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-23 15:47 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-23 16:58 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-23 19:24 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-29 20:52 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-30 6:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-30 6:23 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-21 12:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-21 14:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21 17:17 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 18:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21 17:08 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 12:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-21 12:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-20 22:49 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-21 0:53 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 12:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-21 16:45 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 19:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-21 20:17 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 21:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-21 22:51 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-22 4:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-22 0:54 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-22 4:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-22 6:11 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-22 6:53 ` Miles Bader
2009-11-22 14:45 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-23 2:28 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-23 3:09 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-23 20:38 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-23 22:19 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-25 21:02 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-25 22:19 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-26 6:23 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-26 8:34 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-27 6:36 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-27 16:30 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-27 16:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-27 17:18 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-28 3:09 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-27 19:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-27 19:22 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-11-28 6:45 ` tomas
2009-11-28 9:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-28 16:49 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
[not found] ` <E1NDXkp-0007Qr-VK@fencepost.gnu.org>
2009-11-26 7:09 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-25 22:26 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2009-11-25 23:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-25 23:58 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-26 1:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-26 1:07 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-27 6:35 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-27 8:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-27 6:36 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-27 9:14 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-27 9:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-27 13:44 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-28 3:10 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-28 6:50 ` tomas
2009-11-28 7:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-29 1:16 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-29 4:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-29 4:18 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-29 5:39 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-29 4:18 `
2009-11-30 15:52 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-30 16:31 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-30 2:10 ` Karl Fogel
2009-12-01 4:10 ` Richard Stallman
2009-12-01 6:39 ` Karl Fogel
2009-12-05 6:50 ` Richard Stallman
2009-12-05 17:44 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-23 3:09 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-23 20:38 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-23 22:22 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-24 22:47 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-25 1:46 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-23 22:36 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-23 3:17 ` Glenn Morris
2009-11-22 5:13 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-22 7:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-22 20:32 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-22 21:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-22 23:15 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-22 9:45 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-22 13:08 ` tomas
2009-11-22 23:43 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-23 4:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-23 0:05 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-23 6:44 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-23 19:30 ` Jason Earl [this message]
2009-11-23 23:41 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2009-11-24 0:01 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-24 1:19 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2009-11-24 2:04 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-24 23:41 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2009-11-25 5:28 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21 4:41 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21 4:39 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-11-21 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-22 23:23 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-21 12:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-21 14:40 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21 16:27 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 18:13 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21 18:26 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 22:52 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-22 1:00 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-22 21:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-20 21:56 ` Chong Yidong
2009-11-20 22:47 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-20 22:51 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 22:52 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-21 5:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-21 4:38 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21 10:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-21 16:10 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-21 19:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-21 19:58 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-22 20:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-22 21:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-23 2:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-22 22:59 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-23 2:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-23 3:20 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-23 4:34 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-23 19:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-21 19:01 ` Glenn Morris
2009-11-22 23:41 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-23 0:00 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-23 4:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-23 5:11 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-23 5:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-23 7:35 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-23 14:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-23 15:17 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-23 16:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-23 18:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-23 19:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-23 22:59 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-24 1:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-24 22:47 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-25 8:55 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-25 10:32 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-25 17:48 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-25 18:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-25 19:26 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-25 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-25 18:53 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-24 4:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-24 1:33 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-24 7:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-24 9:35 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-24 11:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-24 11:54 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-24 14:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-25 5:39 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-25 21:01 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-24 2:56 ` Making the tarball with bzr data (was: bzr repository ready?) Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-30 16:34 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-11-30 18:46 ` Making the tarball with bzr data Óscar Fuentes
2009-11-30 18:52 ` Jason Earl
2009-11-23 12:11 ` bzr repository ready? Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-23 14:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-23 18:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-23 12:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-19 0:49 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-19 5:02 ` Ken Raeburn
2009-11-19 6:38 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-20 13:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-20 19:33 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-23 17:56 ` Karl Fogel
[not found] ` <874ozp4ld3.fsf@notengoamigos.org>
2009-01-28 21:24 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-29 9:30 ` Daniel Clemente
2009-01-29 18:19 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-29 18:50 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2009-01-29 20:18 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-30 9:06 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2009-01-30 15:50 ` Karl Fogel
[not found] ` <87y6wvhxrk.fsf@notengoamigos.org>
[not found] ` <8763jwg1j8.fsf@red-bean.com>
2009-01-30 19:38 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-01-30 20:01 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-30 20:24 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-01-31 1:03 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-31 5:02 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-01-31 8:59 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-02-04 17:28 ` Karl Fogel
2009-02-04 20:48 ` Andreas Schwab
2009-02-04 22:49 ` Karl Fogel
2009-02-06 20:19 ` Karl Fogel
[not found] ` <87k583nnxc.fsf@notengoamigos.org>
2009-02-07 3:42 ` Karl Fogel
2009-04-23 14:53 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] ` <871vrj8ew5.fsf@notengoamigos.org>
2009-04-24 0:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-04-28 16:11 ` Karl Fogel
2009-04-28 16:33 ` Samuel Bronson
2009-04-28 17:29 ` Karl Fogel
2009-04-28 17:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-04-28 18:11 ` Karl Fogel
2009-04-29 7:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-04-28 18:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-04-28 19:31 ` Karl Fogel
2009-04-29 1:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-04-29 7:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-04-29 14:30 ` Karl Fogel
[not found] ` <87fxfsr1md.fsf@notengoamigos.org>
2009-04-28 21:56 ` Karl Fogel
2009-04-29 7:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-04-28 23:47 ` Jason Rumney
2009-04-29 1:27 ` Samuel Bronson
2009-04-30 19:39 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-21 23:33 ` Moving to bzr? John Yates
2009-01-22 1:57 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-01-22 15:40 ` Richard M Stallman
2009-01-13 18:58 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2009-01-05 9:48 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-01-05 11:07 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-01-05 14:52 ` Karl Fogel
2009-01-05 11:39 ` dhruva
2009-01-05 12:14 ` Nick Roberts
2009-01-05 12:26 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-01-05 12:34 ` dhruva
[not found] ` <87wsd9tqt6.fsf@notengoamigos.org>
2009-01-06 3:29 ` dhruva
2009-01-06 6:07 ` dhruva
2009-01-06 6:21 ` 马旋(SuperMMX)
2009-01-06 11:42 ` Daniel Clemente
2009-01-04 18:09 ` Tassilo Horn
2009-01-09 9:31 ` Miles Bader
2009-01-09 10:35 ` dhruva
2009-01-09 20:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-01-09 20:26 ` Juanma Barranquero
2009-01-10 9:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-01-10 2:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-01-10 3:06 ` Jason Rumney
2009-01-10 9:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-01-10 20:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-01-10 9:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-01-04 21:41 ` Richard M Stallman
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-11-22 23:30 bzr repository ready? Karl Fogel
2009-11-22 23:36 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-11-23 6:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-23 7:42 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-23 17:19 ` Karl Fogel
2009-11-23 18:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-23 19:35 ` Karl Fogel
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