From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim X Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: line-move-visual Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 18:39:18 +1000 Organization: Unlimited download news at news.astraweb.com Message-ID: <87wrubfd8p.fsf@rapttech.com.au> References: <87pr07qjio.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <878w6vq7ew.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <871vcmhq79.fsf@wivenhoe.ul.ie> <580d5f23-e251-483f-9752-7e77b1ca2fb7@40g2000pry.googlegroups.com> <2a7dc148-e2cc-4681-9d8c-ccd1140aa6d7@j36g2000prj.googlegroups.com> <089883ee-0a63-4cb4-a0ec-d2fe4e71cc03@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <87wruco5yq.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1291829397 31753 80.91.229.12 (8 Dec 2010 17:29:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 17:29:57 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 08 18:29:53 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PQNpx-0002ur-8M for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 18:29:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47802 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PQNpw-0003BV-HI for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 12:29:52 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-xfer.nntp.sonic.net!news.astraweb.com!border2.newsrouter.astraweb.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs,comp.lang.lisp User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:UdJco/96wfVTafSkCPuaaxdufoQ= Original-Lines: 59 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 7d15f334.news.astraweb.com Original-X-Trace: DXC=HVmljo\; IgJjEc; hW[JGKHL?0kYOcDh@Ji=VFiPm?<[E; :jf9eidEkBL1o>O\n]NHBkm`XM0XeR8B Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:178704 comp.emacs:99940 comp.lang.lisp:288764 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:75698 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > Uday S Reddy writes: > >> Coupled with these real technical issues, there are the attitudinal >> problems of holier-than-thou, smarter-than-thou and modern-than-thou >> and what have you. > > Everybody is free to join the discussions on the Emacs developer lists. > Those who choose not to help with the work don't get to criticize the > results. A common democratic principle. > Common democratic principal! What a load of crap. Anyone can criticise any decision at any time. Whether the maintainers want to take any notice is another matter. For the record, I dislike the default of enabling move by visual lines rather than logical ones. However, as it is trivial to revert behavior back to the old default, this whole thread is largely poinless moaning that is unlikely to change anything. I do agree that if you are someone who is going to get upset about changes that you don't agree with, then you should participate in the devel discussions. If you don't want to, then you are just going to have to suck it up and either accept it or use something else. Moaning about it without putting in any effort to find out why the change was made and what discussions took place indicates low emotional maturity and/or someone who just wants to have a childish dummy spit because somehting in their world changed without their permission. Despite the fact I don't agree witht he change in default behavior, I also want to make it very clear, I DO NOT support what has been posted regarding the motivation, care and competancy of the emacs developers and maintainers. To those of you who have done this I would say that making all sorts of assumptions regarding the motivations and considerations of the devel team without actually looking at what discussions did take place is an unjustified and unwarranted attack on those few people who put in the hard word to develop and maintain this free software. It is a cheap dishonarable swipe. It lumps all the developers together as if they are all in agreement regarding every change made and ignores the effort put in to try and get the right outcome and do the difficult job of balancing many different views. If you don't like what they have done, either a) get on the devel list and present a case and maybe build support to have the default changed., b) Make the trivial config change to restore the old behavior and move on C) Use an old version and maintain it yourself the way you want d) Give up and go away. Tim -- tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au