From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: prad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Icicles Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:17:56 -0800 Message-ID: <87wrma8uaj.fsf@towardsfreedom.com> References: <87pqs9cive.fsf@towardsfreedom.com> <87aajbxcz0.fsf@towardsfreedom.com> <438E16200A1B4A5F92832FC0CCBDDC39@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1294816731 23654 80.91.229.12 (12 Jan 2011 07:18:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 07:18:51 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 12 08:18:47 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pcuyk-0004ue-H5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:18:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55336 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Pcuyj-0006ca-Qr for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 02:18:45 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53077 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Pcuy3-0006cP-Cy for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 02:18:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Pcuy2-0001zR-B5 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 02:18:03 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:53775) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Pcuy2-0001z9-1W for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 02:18:02 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pcuxz-0004Ys-Cg for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:17:59 +0100 Original-Received: from 70.67.160.177 ([70.67.160.177]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:17:59 +0100 Original-Received: from prad by 70.67.160.177 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:17:59 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 37 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.67.160.177 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:GvsHiwzNUX3QDaxyon7b7qpu25A= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:78401 Archived-At: "Drew Adams" writes: > Because someone new to Icicles is not yet familiar with the features > and how they fit together, it can be tempting to want to customize > things immediately, to shoot for the keys you are used to, etc. That > is like a VI user switching to Emacs and wanting to use a VI emulator > to support the habit. > > You can do that - nothing wrong with it, but if you do you will not > necessarily learn what Icicles or Emacs really has to offer, in terms > of synergy: how one part can help another part do things better. > thank you drew for the detailed explanations and ideas. i feel doubly fortunate that i get to use something as fine as icicles and have the author as coach. it can't get any better! for me, i think you have made a significant point through your explanations. i likely try to fiddle with too much too soon and should make more of an effort to understand the capabilities and intent of the software's defaults so as to get my bearings right first. i acknowledge this can be difficult to do when there is such a wealth of items available through something like emacs. while trying to learn gnus, i wanted to learn how to use icicles better and that led me somehow to org. so i've joined all the relevant groups and spend more time reading the posts (of people wanting to implement things and others coming up with neat solutions that i don't always understand) than working on learning the software. self-discipline is definitely what is required! imho, open source is the next best thing to sliced bread (thx to people like you who generously create things we all can use) ... and since i don't eat bread, it's pretty well number one on my list! -- in friendship, prad