From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:17:12 +0100 Message-ID: <87wr96p4ab.fsf@wanadoo.es> References: <83boqkr9bp.fsf@gnu.org> <874nwcu17i.fsf@wanadoo.es> <834nwcr6un.fsf@gnu.org> <87vcosskhc.fsf@wanadoo.es> <831urgr2yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87r4zgsh2w.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ipks3zbo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87boqk3q69.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87aa634st8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fwfvsgfv.fsf@wanadoo.es> <877h17scdo.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87hb0b77nr.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8739bvs27m.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83k457p3fg.fsf@gnu.org> <87pqezqeph.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325776684 10135 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2012 15:18:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 15:18:04 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 05 16:18:00 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rip4o-0001QL-GG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:17:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35030 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rip4n-0008Sw-Ui for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:17:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:58156) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rip4j-0008Sg-9z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:17:55 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rip4i-0005fN-50 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:17:53 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:36216) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rip4h-0005fD-Sd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:17:52 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rip4g-0001Mq-NA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:17:50 +0100 Original-Received: from 225.red-79-147-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([79.147.11.225]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:17:50 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 225.red-79-147-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:17:50 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 28 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 225.red-79-147-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:HcP5sDuv2TcZlVcwmjSduzOrASk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147346 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: [snip] >> I could say that your real-world experience distributing, installing >> and supporting software across heterogenous environments looks quite >> limited, but I'll rather suppose that you were very lucky so far. > > You can call 7 years of safe use on 4 different machines luck if you > want. I call it discipline and following safe practices. Wait a minute. You are basing the points you so vehemently defend on just personal experience with your own machines? Does that make sense at all? Do you think that people is so disciplined and knowledgeable (and lucky!) as you and that makes all the problems you don't have to become irrelevant for Emacs? That last paragraph of yours speaks tons about our different stances on this issue. It is my direct responsability to keep my software up and running for hundreds of users across dozens of sites and configurations on machines I don't control, quite a few of them playing a critical role, and deal with bug reports from tens of thousands of users more. Acting as if the experience I gather from my desktop were enough to set the bar for the rest of world would be so foolish that I would be out of bussiness and sued after the three first months. Maybe Emacs doesn't need so much careful thinking as mission-critical software does, but basing design decissions onto very limited personal experiences looks quite wrong too.