From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On the subject of Git, Bazaar, and the future of Emacs development Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 12:09:29 +0900 Message-ID: <87wqsj800m.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20130401202613.0b4201e3@anarchist> <87li91nmhp.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip45hseu.fsf@gmail.com> <87a9pg7mxg.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <8738v75me0.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <20130404072037.6d61a9f435372b5af7fa9e12@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1365044986 30950 80.91.229.3 (4 Apr 2013 03:09:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 03:09:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Karl Fogel , jay.p.belanger@gmail.com, Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Xue Fuqiao Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 04 05:10:12 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UNaYz-0001fC-Af for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Apr 2013 05:10:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43205 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNaYa-0004kK-Ex for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 23:09:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42638) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNaYU-0004kD-5f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 23:09:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNaYP-0000Gw-Dw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 23:09:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:33022) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNaYO-0000Gh-SZ; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 23:09:33 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B6099708EF; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 12:09:29 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3F4911A3DCA; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 12:09:29 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <20130404072037.6d61a9f435372b5af7fa9e12@gmail.com> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" b0d40183ac79 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:158642 Archived-At: Xue Fuqiao writes: > On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:34:31 -0500 > Karl Fogel wrote: > > > As far as I can tell, the only really meaningful way in which Bazaar > > is a "GNU project" is that GNU Emacs currently uses it. > > IIRC Gnash, Mailman and Solfege also use it. (There are some other GNU > programs that use Bazaar, but I cannot remember.) The head of the Mailman project is a Canonical employee. IIRC, at the time of the choice of VCS, he was working on Launchpad. At least one of the Gnash core developers was a Canonical employee assigned to Bazaar development. Those projects are more evidence of Canonical connection than of GNU connection I would say. On the contrary, at the time that Emacs chose Bazaar, Savannah's support for Bazaar was rather poor; only a project that valued ideals at almost any cost of productivity would choose it. Savannah's support for git was much better; the alternatives for projects that just wanted the VCS to stay out of their way were really svn and git. The difficulties Emacs faced would hardly have encouraged other to use Bazaar for quite some time (it takes a couple of years for such a reputation to disperse, let alone reverse). On balance, usage by GNU projects is hardly evidence one way or another for the GNU-ness of Bazaar. But if the facts Karl reports about the website are current, that's sad. Except for the www.gnu.org redirect to canonical.com, those defects were reported *and fixed* years ago. The Bazaar pages were updated at Richard's request to fix references to the "Linux System", and to give the GNU Project at least as prominent visibility as the commercial sponsors and users. Karl's report indicates that many of those defects have regressed.