Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

[Michael Albinus]

Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Daniel,

> +  * `tramp-hostname-checker'
> +    This is a function that tramp calls while setting
> +    up a connection.  It is called with three arguments:
> +    the target, the host, and the method description.  If
> +    the hostname is unacceptable, this function should signal
> +    using `tramp-error'.  If a method does not provide
> +    a value here, then Tramp looks at whether the method's
> +    login program uses a \"%h\" parameter.  If not, then Tramp
> +    requires that the given hostname match `tramp-local-host-regexp'. 

I don't follow. What is this change good for? Do you have a use case?

Best regards, Michael.

Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

[Daniel Colascione]

On 10/29/2013 12:10 AM, Michael Albinus wrote:
> Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione@gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
>> +  * `tramp-hostname-checker'
>> +    This is a function that tramp calls while setting
>> +    up a connection.  It is called with three arguments:
>> +    the target, the host, and the method description.  If
>> +    the hostname is unacceptable, this function should signal
>> +    using `tramp-error'.  If a method does not provide
>> +    a value here, then Tramp looks at whether the method's
>> +    login program uses a \"%h\" parameter.  If not, then Tramp
>> +    requires that the given hostname match `tramp-local-host-regexp'.
>
> I don't follow. What is this change good for? Do you have a use case?
>

I do locally --- a custom tramp method that connects to just one host 
and therefore doesn't refer to %h --- but more generally, it seems odd 
to tie the local- versus remote-capable distinction to just referring to %h.

Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

[Michael Albinus]

Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> writes:

Hi Daniel,

> I do locally --- a custom tramp method that connects to just one host
> and therefore doesn't refer to %h --- but more generally, it seems odd
> to tie the local- versus remote-capable distinction to just referring
> to %h.

That's what you have said in the docstring, more or less. Could you,
please, show me your use case?

Note, that I have converted tramp-methods from defcustom to defvar a
while ago. It's meanwhile too complex, to offer it as general purpose
config mean.

Best regards, Michael.

Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

[Daniel Colascione]

On 10/29/2013 12:26 AM, Michael Albinus wrote:
> Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> writes:
>> I do locally --- a custom tramp method that connects to just one host
>> and therefore doesn't refer to %h --- but more generally, it seems odd
>> to tie the local- versus remote-capable distinction to just referring
>> to %h.
>
> That's what you have said in the docstring, more or less. Could you,
> please, show me your use case?

It's largely a copy of sshx with some pre-connection twiddling and 
out-of-band host selection. I'd rather not actually reproduce it here. 
If you object strongly to my change, I can back it out of course; I'll 
have to figure out a way to insert a dummy %h.

> Note, that I have converted tramp-methods from defcustom to defvar a
> while ago. It's meanwhile too complex, to offer it as general purpose
> config mean.

Then it might be worthwhile to remove the section about non-standard 
methods from the manual entirely. In the meantime, it seems perfectly 
amenable to customization by ambitious end users.

Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

[Michael Albinus]

Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> writes:

> It's largely a copy of sshx with some pre-connection twiddling and
> out-of-band host selection. I'd rather not actually reproduce it
> here. If you object strongly to my change, I can back it out of
> course; I'll have to figure out a way to insert a dummy %h.

I do not object strongly, I just want to understand. You could send it
to me off-list (with anonymous user and host names), that I understand
it better. Then we might decide, which is the best way to fit your
needs.

>> Note, that I have converted tramp-methods from defcustom to defvar a
>> while ago. It's meanwhile too complex, to offer it as general purpose
>> config mean.
>
> Then it might be worthwhile to remove the section about non-standard
> methods from the manual entirely.

Right.

> In the meantime, it seems perfectly amenable to customization by
> ambitious end users.

Yep, despite the fact that you have changed also the code in
tramp-compute-multi-hops. This is far from what was intended. And I also
don't understand, what's the effect of tramp-error in your
tramp-hostname-checker.

From time to time, new attributes appear in tramp-methods, which are
important to be set. People do not change their config, because they are
not aware of the changes. This could (and did) raise problems.

Best regards, Michael.

Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

[Michael Albinus]

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes:

Hi Daniel,

>> It's largely a copy of sshx with some pre-connection twiddling and
>> out-of-band host selection. I'd rather not actually reproduce it
>> here. If you object strongly to my change, I can back it out of
>> course; I'll have to figure out a way to insert a dummy %h.
>
> I do not object strongly, I just want to understand. You could send it
> to me off-list (with anonymous user and host names), that I understand
> it better. Then we might decide, which is the best way to fit your
> needs.

Ping.

I really would like to understand your change. Otherwise, I cannot keep
it in Tramp.

Best regards, Michael.

Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

[Michael Albinus]

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes:

Hi Daniel,

>>> It's largely a copy of sshx with some pre-connection twiddling and
>>> out-of-band host selection. I'd rather not actually reproduce it
>>> here. If you object strongly to my change, I can back it out of
>>> course; I'll have to figure out a way to insert a dummy %h.
>>
>> I do not object strongly, I just want to understand. You could send it
>> to me off-list (with anonymous user and host names), that I understand
>> it better. Then we might decide, which is the best way to fit your
>> needs.
>
> Ping.
>
> I really would like to understand your change. Otherwise, I cannot keep
> it in Tramp.

I've reverted this change in Emacs trunk.

Best regards, Michael.

Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

[Daniel Colascione]

Hi Michael,

I missed your previous message --- sorry about that.

On 11/10/2013 12:36 AM, Michael Albinus wrote:
> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes:
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
>>>> It's largely a copy of sshx with some pre-connection twiddling and
>>>> out-of-band host selection. I'd rather not actually reproduce it
>>>> here. If you object strongly to my change, I can back it out of
>>>> course; I'll have to figure out a way to insert a dummy %h.
>>>
>>> I do not object strongly, I just want to understand. You could send it
>>> to me off-list (with anonymous user and host names), that I understand
>>> it better. Then we might decide, which is the best way to fit your
>>> needs.
>>
>> Ping.
>>
>> I really would like to understand your change. Otherwise, I cannot keep
>> it in Tramp.
>
> I've reverted this change in Emacs trunk.

I've made my case for the change: it makes it easier to customize 
tramp-methods with a method that always connects to a specific host. If 
that's not sufficient, the revert is fine. I'll do something else locally.

Re: trunk r114834: Tweak Tramp method definition syntax to allow overriding check for localhost-only methods

[Michael Albinus]

Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> writes:

> Hi Michael,

Hi Daniel,

> I've made my case for the change: it makes it easier to customize
> tramp-methods with a method that always connects to a specific
> host. If that's not sufficient, the revert is fine. I'll do something
> else locally.

I still don't understand your use case, sorry. Could you give me an
example?

If you don't want to show it publicly, send it off-list.

Best regards, Michael.