From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:54:25 +0100 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87wqjwrvu6.fsf@informatimago.com> References: <5288A59E.7030109@dancol.org> <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87mwl04w3k.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <87iovo4caz.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <877gc14vzs.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <878uwhxnqe.fsf@informatimago.com> <83txf4cw9z.fsf@gnu.org> <416D7143-AE4A-45FF-A3A3-AA208D268D97@informatimago.com> <83hab4ce1o.fsf@gnu.org> <87vbzkvyiz.fsf@informatimago.com> <83bo1bcysn.fsf@gnu.org> <8338mkb2u6.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385416548 32022 80.91.229.3 (25 Nov 2013 21:55:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:55:48 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 25 22:55:53 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl48H-0004Nh-BY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:55:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55294 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl48H-0002OA-16 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:55:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46862) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl489-0002Nl-I2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:55:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl483-00087f-BE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:55:45 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:37681) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl482-00087a-TJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:55:39 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl481-0004HG-IJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:55:37 +0100 Original-Received: from 90.24.199.117 ([90.24.199.117]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:55:37 +0100 Original-Received: from pjb by 90.24.199.117 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:55:37 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 42 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 90.24.199.117 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:OTVmMTQxZTQ3MmE2MWQ0NWY0ZDcwOGIyOWVkNTk1OTgyYmUyN2FmMw== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165728 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: "Allen S. Rout" >> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:42:52 -0500 >> >> On 11/23/2013 03:22 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> > >> > The layout depends on the medium in very minor ways, as long as we are >> > talking about the "usual" page sizes. If what you have in mind is A3 >> > paper or greeting cards, then the layout is indeed greatly affected, >> > but that's taking the issue to its extreme. >> > >> > IOW, WYSIWYG is much more than just layout. >> > >> >> I think this is a critical point, and I think that Eli is deeply >> incorrect here. WYSIWYG is -only- about layout, for the overwhelming >> majority of its users. I think that's why many of us aren't so fond of it. > > Then I guess there are several conflicting ways of interpreting > WYSIWYG. It's not that I just landed from Mars, or never saw a > WYSIWYG word processor before. > > We will just have to agree to disagree. > > Of course, the real question is what did Richard have in mind. > >> There is no distinction between letter and greeting cards which is not >> present in the comparison between letter and >> letter-with-really-small-margins. Line breaks, kerning, justification >> details... all of this is relevant if we actually want WYSIWYG. > > I won't object if Emacs supported writing papers in a WYSIWYGy > fashion, but didn't support greeting cards. Why not? Don't tell us you never receive those irritating greeting cards from non-programmers. Why shouldn't we be able to retaliate in kind? -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/