From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Spencer Baugh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Intermediate tutorial shipped with Emacs Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:13:25 -0400 Message-ID: <87wpvmbd5m.fsf@earth.catern.com> References: <87a8sjcfr6.fsf@earth.catern.com> <834miqrhza.fsf@gnu.org> <876136zut4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1442679228 14975 80.91.229.3 (19 Sep 2015 16:13:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:13:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 19 18:13:36 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdKlc-0002Nn-97 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:13:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46898 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdKlb-0001kO-RO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:13:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39066) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdKlY-0001k5-2m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:13:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdKlW-0000OR-VP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:13:31 -0400 Original-Received: from catern.com ([104.131.201.120]:59467 helo=mail.catern.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdKlT-0000Kn-2P; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:13:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.catern.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 507F5418AE; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:13:26 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <876136zut4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 104.131.201.120 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190104 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Past discussions more or less concluded that there should be a series > of intermediate-level tutorials, each one covering topics in some > distinct area. So the topics you present above, that are unrelated to > each other and probably reflect your personal interests (or even some > random selection) are probably not the way to go. Tramp should > probably be in a tutorial dedicated to remote editing and URL-related > features; narrowing should be in a tutorial that also explains > folding, outline mode, hide-ifdef, and other similar features. Calc > is a topic by itself (doesn't it include its own tutorial in its > manual?), perhaps together with Calculator. Etc. etc. -- I would > suggest first to come up with a list of the areas, or at least produce > a couple of tutorials along these lines. I do like the idea of a series of tutorials. It would probably be easier to produce tutorials that cover groups of related features rather than all of Emacs, and each tutorial would probably be better for it. The two groupings you just named sound pretty good. I agree that either producing a list of areas to write tutorials about, or just going ahead and writing one of those tutorials, would be a good first step. Still, I think it is important that new users be able to quickly get a broad sense of the categories of features available in Emacs. Perhaps a node that links to all these tutorials, and describes the subject area of each of them in a paragraph or two of text? This would not only include the tutorials about "remote-editing and URLs" and "hiding and showing text", but also the Calc tutorial and other tutorials that already exist. That is kind of like the Emacs manual's top node, but perhaps more helpful for discovering new features, since it could be more descriptive than the single-line summaries, and also have less material to search through by virtue of grouping some features together. "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > +1 to "probably". I didn't resonate to that list myself, but I can't > really say that "most" new users wouldn't. The list I made is indeed just a random selection of topics, but ones that I think most users would have immediate uses for. Obviously this is somewhat subjective, I'm not really beholden to that list, it was just to start the conversation. > I would envision this intermediate tutorial as a series of "HOWTO" > do common tasks. It would only explain enough of the feature to > implement the HOWTO, and provide links to the manual. I like HOWTOs and FAQs, but I'm not sure what kind of tasks would be suitable for explanation in the manual; I'd be worried about the manual seeming dated or purpose-specific. If a tutorial just focuses on the abilities of Emacs, then I don't think that problem arises. > > > So, I wanted to see if emacs-devel thought this was a good idea, > > > or a bad idea, or if anyone had any suggestions. I would be happy > > > to adapt the document I've already written if that makes sense. > > I think that's the way to go. Maybe post it or a link to it on the > EmacsWiki. Yes, I'll definitely get around to doing that.