From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord)
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: Stromeko@nexgo.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 17:43:11 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87wph5fw0w.fsf@russet.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83mvi1ww6m.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 18 Oct 2016 17:47:45 +0300")
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord)
>> Cc: Stromeko@nexgo.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:33:50 +0100
>>
>> >> The point here is that load-path is *directory* based. As it stands, we
>> >> cannot exclude some files in one directory.
>> >
>> > I don't see any need to exclude files. If a newer version of a
>> > package is installed outside of the Emacs lisp/ tree, the directory of
>> > that package needs to be earlier in load-path than the main lisp/
>> > directory and its subdirectories. Again, not hard to arrange.
>>
>> No, this doesn't work. The point is with the new exporter, org
>> introduced new files. The new ox-html.el would not shadow the old
>> org-html.el, however you organised the path. In otherwords, the org
>> package changed the features that it provided over time.
>
> Look, this discussion will go nowhere constructive if you change the
> subject all the time. You talked about load-path, and our inability
> to exclude files in directories on load-path. Clearly, this only
> matters when Emacs wants to _load_ the file in question, and for that
> the order of directories in load-path is all that counts.
*shrugs*. I'm doing my best to be as clear as I can, I do not think I am
changing the subject.
> Now you are evidently talking about a file that was already loaded,
> and then the user upgraded the package from which that file comes, and
> wants the new version to become effective without restarting Emacs,
> which is where the old features already loaded get in the way because
> the user wants their new versions. Obviously, this has nothing to do
> with load-path, right?
No.
Consider this scenario.
Situation One:
Org-mode comes with a file called org-html. Org-mode v1 is distributed
with core emacs. Org-mode v2 is released, and user installs from ELPA.
Org-mode v2 is before Org-mode v1. The world is well.
Situation Two:
Org-mode v1 comes with a file called org-html. v1 is distributed with
core emacs. Org-mode v2, however, no longer has a file called org-html,
but does have a file called ox-html. Although org-mode v2 comes in the
path before org-mode v1, it is still possible to load org-html.
Situation Three:
Org-mode v1 comes with org-html. v1 is distributed through ELPA.
Org-mode v2 comes with ox-html. We upgrade v1 to v2, and v1 is removed
from the path. org-html is no longer loadable.
I mention this because it's happened to me. I was happily loaded
org-html even though I had updated org mode to latest in ELPA because I
didn't know.
We can solve Situation Two by simply excluding the org-mode v1 directory
for load path, but this option is only open to us because org-mode is in
its own directory.
My conclusion: having org-mode its own directory is a good thing. By
extrapolation, therefore, having most or all packages in their own
directory would be a good thing.
>> More generally, you might also concieve of a situation where a new
>> package replaces another.
>
> If package.el already knows how to unload the old features and load
> the new ones, it will continue doing this for any package, whether in
> or out of core. Right?
With the example that I have given, this fails at the moment for
org-mode, specificially because org-mode is in core.
Phil
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-10-18 16:43 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 204+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <20160916203416.8DF2F220166@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
2016-09-16 22:43 ` [Emacs-diffs] feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Stefan Monnier
2016-09-17 7:41 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-17 16:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-17 21:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-18 16:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-18 18:33 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-17 21:52 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-18 13:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-18 18:36 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-18 19:45 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-18 22:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-19 8:48 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-19 14:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-19 16:00 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-19 16:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-21 20:26 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-22 12:54 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-22 15:19 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-23 14:55 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-23 16:31 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-26 16:28 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-26 19:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-27 16:01 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-28 15:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-29 9:00 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-29 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-29 16:38 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-30 10:43 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 11:20 ` Alain Schneble
2016-09-30 12:39 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 11:56 ` Alain Schneble
2016-09-30 12:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-30 12:41 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 13:24 ` Alain Schneble
2016-09-30 16:17 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 20:02 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-03 12:32 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-03 16:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-05 6:28 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-05 15:23 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-07 16:15 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-08 14:58 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-09 20:30 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-07 16:11 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-08 10:43 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-09 20:17 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-08 14:58 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-08 17:35 ` Colin Baxter
2016-10-09 20:20 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-09 20:19 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-09 21:35 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-12 14:02 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-12 15:24 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-08 19:40 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-09 20:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-10 3:03 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-12 13:53 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-12 16:29 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 10:40 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-13 17:14 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 18:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-13 18:48 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-14 8:11 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-05 7:25 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-07 16:29 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-08 10:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-08 10:57 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-08 11:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-08 11:41 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-08 12:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-08 13:33 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-08 14:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-09 20:42 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-10 6:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-12 14:07 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-12 16:30 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 10:47 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-13 17:14 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 21:54 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-13 22:09 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-13 22:29 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-14 6:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 8:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 9:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 17:41 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 8:23 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 9:15 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 8:20 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 8:49 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-14 9:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 9:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 13:51 ` Andy Moreton
2016-10-14 14:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 15:12 ` Andy Moreton
2016-10-14 15:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 16:47 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-15 12:01 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 12:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 13:34 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-15 14:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 14:53 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 15:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 10:52 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 11:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 13:33 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 14:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 16:43 ` Phillip Lord [this message]
2016-10-18 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 18:48 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-18 19:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 7:51 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 8:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 9:31 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 9:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 9:51 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 10:25 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 15:19 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 19:21 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 20:24 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 20:57 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 22:35 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 9:42 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-20 7:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 15:14 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 17:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 15:09 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 15:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 16:12 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 17:40 ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-10-19 18:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-19 19:57 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 20:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-19 22:38 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 7:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 20:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-19 21:17 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 21:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-20 10:01 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 22:52 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 18:05 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-19 18:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 19:47 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 7:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 18:26 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-19 18:51 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 19:24 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-19 20:13 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-20 7:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-20 6:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 19:33 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 20:13 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 21:56 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-19 23:03 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 8:35 ` Michael Albinus
2016-10-20 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 17:18 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-18 10:54 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 18:54 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-19 8:01 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 17:08 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-15 17:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 10:59 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 11:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 13:37 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 14:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 14:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-17 23:09 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-18 6:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 13:01 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 14:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 16:59 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 17:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 7:54 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 18:08 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-19 7:59 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 14:04 ` Andy Moreton
2016-10-15 11:51 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 12:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 11:48 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-09 20:38 ` [Emacs-diffs] " Phillip Lord
2016-10-10 6:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-08 10:25 ` Alain Schneble
2016-09-30 13:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-30 12:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-30 13:06 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 13:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-30 16:22 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 17:30 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-03 12:33 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-03 16:13 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-29 16:53 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-29 17:06 ` Drew Adams
2016-09-29 17:13 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-30 10:49 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 14:20 ` Drew Adams
2016-09-30 16:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 10:44 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-21 20:42 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-09-22 12:49 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-22 17:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-23 14:49 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-23 15:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-26 16:23 ` Phillip Lord
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