From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 23:35:48 +0100 Message-ID: <87wph4t1a3.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <87instslxu.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83inst1vut.fsf@gnu.org> <87eg3ekjz2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vawpx677.fsf@gnu.org> <87h989ixxd.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83mvi1ww6m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wph5fw0w.fsf@russet.org.uk> <838ttlwodt.fsf@gnu.org> <878ttl3342.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <8360opwjs2.fsf@gnu.org> <8760oosrn8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83shrsvj3g.fsf@gnu.org> <86twc8r8gw.fsf@realize.ch> <83r37cvfo6.fsf@gnu.org> <86oa2gr7jb.fsf@realize.ch> <86k2d4r5y5.fsf@realize.ch> <87bmygfjso.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86bmygqh49.fsf@realize.ch> <87shrs6qak.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86y41koy4m.fsf@realize.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476916586 10774 195.159.176.226 (19 Oct 2016 22:36:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:36:26 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stromeko@nexgo.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alain Schneble Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 20 00:36:19 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwzSq-000893-68 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 00:36:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51462 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwzSs-00052c-F8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:36:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58476) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwzSm-00052W-Fk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:35:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwzSl-0003y1-Fr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:35:56 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:52940) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwzSg-0003x1-Hq; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:35:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=u4F87e/8YMb1t92zaTl9XgmzvE07qHTvyz1zhlEecjw=; b=E6Q6MixlX8Kq52g9DLU6dqU/21 NuPz8HvLXEumsX3qf6jmY8zzyNp+UAr2Z4QQlkNV6+Jc04nApYLnbB3vRsamvfmhNVz6iRsb4qzJN I2b18zAhtsLIhLFcKG8I3wmdCVT6Z1shpz4R8u73/75Lj0y+43pEFTzzgg8+anozBfWhxOLdp5ssP 012fiZuOMWYPky8LNlDU1KurVOX01a6RdB5aHHYFuuyOIcabubyH3uP+1izysaINdS0OQxuXICnE1 OMLsoRsYgxKD5LzIm/IrKPiuwRwZFoQEbBq6eQ+rf0g9ZXuNz2lRVRe9qmB8n0r6ggqDVzKHfrPF3 VDv1Fs/w==; Original-Received: from cpc14-benw10-2-0-cust305.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([92.234.125.50]:35086 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1bwzSf-000QCh-0H; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 23:35:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: <86y41koy4m.fsf@realize.ch> (Alain Schneble's message of "Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:57:29 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208513 Archived-At: Alain Schneble writes: > phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: >> I like this, and it gives a nice error message of deprecation, and I >> think that is good. But this is a solution which requires package >> developers to explicitly support declarations of deprecation. > > Indeed. But in case a package offers a public feature/interface to be > used by anybody, including non-package code, such an explicit handling > would be TRTTD, IMO. Yes, I think that is true. I don't think that there is explicit support for this form of deprecation in Emacs at the moment. We should write a package and add it to ELPA! >> Just removing "food-package-1.0" from `load-path` gives a less nice >> error message, but it still fails fast, and requires no developer >> support > > True. But I don't think we have to account for all possible "misuses" > and bugs. We all run into issues. But we have to try to not get biased > by a specific problem one once had and which might have taken hours to > fix I try not to. It's just a problem that packages in core having when upgrading from ELPA. It's a clear, specific. I've had it, true, and it took me a lot of time to work out, but as Achim says so have other people. > And I think this discussion has nothing to do with the directory layout. > It's a different topic IMO, though you try to fix it with the directory > layout. It is a problem that a package.el based solution would not have, and which it achieves through in a simple and straight-forward way, though it's use of it's directory layout. Personally, I consider the directory layout to be a side issue -- direct use of package.el is the main issue. It's there, Emacs already supports in for packages in ~/.emacs.d, and in site lisp, it's already plumbed into startup and all the files in ELPA are already built with package.el in mind. To me using it is a slam dunk, as our friends over the pond like to say. I am not at all surprised that people objected to my idea of introducing a new top level directory is contentious -- that is why I asked the question in the first place; I am a little surprised at the objections to a per-package directory structure for these packages. So far, I have only understood two objections: Drew's and Stefan's. Why would it be a problem? Phil