From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 08:59:36 +0100 Message-ID: <87wph4rcpj.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <8660p3qd99.fsf@realize.ch> <831szrhwsr.fsf@gnu.org> <8760p12qzw.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vax0en1u.fsf@gnu.org> <87pon5ek3q.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87twcgttjf.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86a8e7symk.fsf@realize.ch> <8737jzl4u9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8337jz8dg8.fsf@gnu.org> <83insv3tnl.fsf@gnu.org> <83d1j33qgg.fsf@gnu.org> <87wph96cto.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83h98axk5z.fsf@gnu.org> <8760opkdz3.fsf@russet.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476864045 3311 195.159.176.226 (19 Oct 2016 08:00:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 08:00:45 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: andrewjmoreton@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 19 10:00:33 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwlnM-0005nk-L8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 10:00:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46169 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwlnO-00087d-6t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:00:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34452) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwlmq-000878-I5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 03:59:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwlmp-0002GD-Qx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 03:59:44 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:52197) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwlmk-0002DC-2y; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 03:59:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=0FLm4ga63xgxhCP51DQmMq+FacLP2ytRZJ6INnJVw9Q=; b=rHS6aLdYA5roEmf4qRO6VNeBKA f8IGipf4LL7rsBcf4C4sGEMnRTGvwuw80x6Di0b/kS7qfOZPqWwGjx4vpmMQy3BCvYKZZDqGRrWP+ lT7iKjcr8ccV1oJdJ/TSGiREMyzO5WG4SX25zx81c0h9D67ziwh+6k8VHr0Ozmfvz/J2n3N4Nt/Cp 7cLMQS1Skt52t7ikPeOBzwYd6uThBKNwL0hrRa37pjpAs1LBrL41T/+9unROLjP46IH4xwC6O9blX TLpAS16UR6ahmo12B4R584pgFhohO1unAkEqakj7vS9Dwk/tD7Vv8JtUNYqN3/Mu/6duUfAapa85p qyL5T+pQ==; Original-Received: from cpc14-benw10-2-0-cust305.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([92.234.125.50]:34064 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1bwlmj-001VM1-07; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 08:59:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:08:06 -0700") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208461 Archived-At: John Wiegley writes: >>>>>> Phillip Lord writes: > >> - Use package.el to initialize and load these during startup > > I'm OK with this, as long as it doesn't impact current load-time efficiency. > > My past experience with package.is that it introduced a lot of slowness, due > to loading far more autoloads than I might ever care about. This is partly why > use-package manages my load-path and autoloads explicit: I only use maybe 1% > of the total autoloads available in the system. > > As long as I'm not paying a cost just for having package.el be part of the > process, I'm fine with this part of your goal. I have no a priori way of determining whether this will be the case or not. We can only find this out by building it. It might even make things quicker -- currently Emacs loads all the autoloads in loaddefs.el whether you want it to or not. We might be able to reduce that. My own feeling is that autoloads are currently used for two things: ensuring that a user feature is available (i.e. open a perl file and get perl mode); and enabling a programmatic feature without needing a "require" form (i.e. in a new lisp file call "pcase"). What I would say, though, is that IF it does slow things down, then this will provide the impetus to speed package.el up, to the benefit of everyone not using use-package. Phil