From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 23:27:04 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87worxm21j.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87sh36inql.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <87k1oeaofu.fsf@ada> <20180825103413.gbm5stsl67j6weow@Ergus> <87k1od7vzf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83wosd5h3x.fsf@gnu.org> <871sakzssu.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83bm9n6f7d.fsf@gnu.org> <87tvneql3i.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83o9dl2oob.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3coopyf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <8736uvmn44.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <87y3chqre4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87va7j65s6.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87worxu66s.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536357173 31762 195.159.176.226 (7 Sep 2018 21:52:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 21:52:53 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Filipp Gunbin Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 07 23:52:49 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyOgL-0008BB-Ft for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 23:52:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40428 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyOiR-0003u9-QS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 17:54:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33034) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyOh0-0002q0-SO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 17:53:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyOgz-0000MN-P0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 17:53:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5301::3]:16844) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyOgz-0000A6-82 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 17:53:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1536357206; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=1iKJ12XX7YYh8wsModfJR1D/jrlULcyTdgiEGF2GGks=; b=MpSs9fthMJhuSpAls40/dFEwJeHD0FnJvUlC4DKqU5IfP1WOgGjQSpuckmjyCaSOKJ neZbRiEfBfY9dk7u/NmCBKTQqgX63NVBiksLWOx8SE9/h0eleP9MZ3U1DonD+2bwZsTC ViUoWs7ua5ZiZJQqvhmNUA83vNGY49r5FJTHNbvpPlZJISvVp4hu9PnKwcSIa0qIBpDo 6dOdbJpgb3XHIzFz+LElKG1KoHQNYuq5NdgwlQnWTpIuHGC8HMeKZZfME+mlX4u+DIeQ +t2P/1rxdjtSfWV+U9bw6qzUbGyxYcxKSt3lQPXUAs97k8VOqBkC5js6S9lpLu6M7BPz ptsA== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.0 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e03b99u87LrMD7x (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 7 Sep 2018 23:53:22 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fyOgs-0001BM-2l; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 23:53:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Filipp Gunbin's message of "Fri, 07 Sep 2018 17:10:12 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229457 Archived-At: Filipp Gunbin writes: > On 07/09/2018 09:18 +0200, hw wrote: > >> Filipp Gunbin writes: >> >> I've never used a Russian one. That might make a nice collectors item >> :) > > Believe me, there's really nothing special about it. We usually switch > between English and Cyrillic layout. All Cyrillic letters are put on > the keyboard directly, with no AltGr or anything like that. If you > enable "russian-computer" input method in Emacs, you'll get the same as > we have on Russian keyboards. Well, I don't know how to read these letters while you see them all around all the time, so it's not special for you. >>> You should have 2 Ctrl's and 2 Alt's (one of which could be AltGr) on a >>> German keyboard, so you should be in same situations as other users. >> >> AltGr is not an Alt key. There is only *one* Alt key on German >> keyboards, and it's on the left side. > [...] > > Yes, I see from the article that you have that additional (third) level > of alteration, besides normal keys and shifted keys. We have a few characters for which there are no keys available, so someone invented AltGr to make them available. The result is that symbols easy to reach on US keyboards are difficult to reach because the keys that are easy to reach carry the additional characters, and the symbols are only reachable with AltGr. That was really stupid; they should just have added a couple more keys instead. > I see three German input methods in Emacs (`C-h I g e r TAB TAB'): > german, german-prefix, german-postfix. Are they not enought for a > typical usage? If not, then what do other German users here use? I have no idea, I never picked an input method and never saw a need to do that, so I don't know about them. > As for Alt's, at least you have one normal Alt. I have a similar > problem on Macbook, where we have two Command keys, and only one Ctrl. > I swapped them on OS level. I also swapped resulting Ctrl with Alt, so > I have this: COMMAND CTRL ALT SPACE ALT CTRL without any fancy Emacs > settings. Not all users actually use right Alt and Ctrl, but I do, so > it's important for me to have symmetric keys to the right of spacebar. Macs are most awful, they didn't even get the keyboard right ... I usually make a few changes, like turning CapsLock into Ctrl, replacing the comma on the keypad with a dot, putting / on the tilde key where, on most keyboards, the * is, and a second Alt key on the useless key on the right side wich is usually between AltGr and Ctrl. So I have a map for every keyboard I have. I just wish I had a keyboard with real 122 keys all outemu switches. It doesn't get any better than those.