* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? @ 2018-09-12 14:06 Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-12 15:48 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-12 14:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 32722 [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1295 bytes --] Hello. I don't understand why Emacs quote Github, a non-free platform, when I want to publish my org-blog : M-x org-publish-all […] Publishing file home/nico/Documents/Travaux/.nico/www/Tutoriels/Emacs/org-mode-listes-de-taches.org using ‘org-html-publish-to-html’ org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 2237... org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 2786... org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 3397... org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 3846... org-babel-exp process org at position 4931... org-html-fontify-code: Please install htmlize from https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize Surely, I think I should editing my former publications to pass Emacs 25.1 to Emacs 26.1. But I also think that Emacs must not quote GitHub. Thank you for everything done. Et vive le Logiciel Libre ! ^^ -- | Numérion | Nicolas Floquet | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Services informatiques en logiciels libres | | XMPP : nflqt@jabber.fr | Tél : 06.32.93.03.51 | | Ğ1 : BjZFP7UpKjJ9hbavhT2Ep2hP58noXp6xdPY4awsX17yD | | PGP : 94C7 641B 719E B06A F406 7AB3 3709 C700 E548 F996 | +----------------------------------------------------------+ [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 850 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-12 14:06 bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-12 15:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-13 7:33 ` Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-13 7:33 ` Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman 2 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-12 15:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Floquet; +Cc: 32722 > From: Nicolas Floquet <n@flqt.fr> > Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:06:05 +0200 > > I don't understand why Emacs quote Github, a non-free platform, when I > want to publish my org-blog : Could you please report this to the Org developers? Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-12 15:48 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-13 7:33 ` Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-13 7:33 ` Nicolas Floquet 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-13 7:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 32722 Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 18:48 +0300, Eli Zaretskii a écrit : > Could you please report this to the Org developers? Thanks. It's done. Thanks. Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 23:35 -0400, Richard Stallman a écrit : > Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs > (counting ELPA). So this needs to be deleted. > > If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs. > Is there some obstacle to that? Thank you rms. -- | Numérion | Nicolas Floquet | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Services informatiques en logiciels libres | | XMPP : nflqt@jabber.fr | Tél : 06.32.93.03.51 | | Ğ1 : BjZFP7UpKjJ9hbavhT2Ep2hP58noXp6xdPY4awsX17yD | | PGP : 94C7 641B 719E B06A F406 7AB3 3709 C700 E548 F996 | +----------------------------------------------------------+ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-12 15:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-13 7:33 ` Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-13 7:33 ` Nicolas Floquet 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-13 7:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 32722 Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 18:48 +0300, Eli Zaretskii a écrit : > Could you please report this to the Org developers? Thanks. It's done. Thanks. Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 23:35 -0400, Richard Stallman a écrit : > Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs > (counting ELPA). So this needs to be deleted. > > If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs. > Is there some obstacle to that? Thank you rms. -- | Numérion | Nicolas Floquet | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Services informatiques en logiciels libres | | XMPP : nflqt@jabber.fr | Tél : 06.32.93.03.51 | | Ğ1 : BjZFP7UpKjJ9hbavhT2Ep2hP58noXp6xdPY4awsX17yD | | PGP : 94C7 641B 719E B06A F406 7AB3 3709 C700 E548 F996 | +----------------------------------------------------------+ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-12 14:06 bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-12 15:48 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman 2 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-13 3:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Floquet; +Cc: 32722 [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs (counting ELPA). So this needs to be deleted. If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs. Is there some obstacle to that? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-13 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: Nicolas Floquet, 32722 Richard Stallman wrote: > If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs. > Is there some obstacle to that? Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-13 15:36 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kaushal Modi 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-13 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: Nicolas Floquet, 32722 Richard Stallman wrote: > If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs. > Is there some obstacle to that? Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales ` (4 more replies) 2018-09-13 15:36 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kaushal Modi 1 sibling, 5 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-13 15:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: n, emacs-org list, Richard Stallman, Nicolas Goaziou, 32722 On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: > > Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. > Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506) This has been discussed before on the Org mailing list. From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify instead of htmlize. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Samuel Wales @ 2018-09-13 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi Cc: Glenn Morris, n, Richard Stallman, emacs-org list, 32722, Nicolas Goaziou (htmlize-buffer-substring-no-invisible b e) is this function available in emacs? if not, it would be good to extract it and put it in emacs, or write one for emacs. On 9/13/18, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: >> >> Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. >> Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506) > > This has been discussed before on the Org mailing list. > > From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify > instead of htmlize. > > -- The Kafka Pandemic: <http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com> The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. And ANYBODY can get it at any time. "You’ve really gotta quit this and get moving, because this is murder by neglect." --- <http://www.meaction.net/2017/02/03/pwme-people-with-me-are-being-murdered-by-neglect>. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Samuel Wales @ 2018-09-13 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: n, rms, mail, 32722 (htmlize-buffer-substring-no-invisible b e) is this function available in emacs? if not, it would be good to extract it and put it in emacs, or write one for emacs. On 9/13/18, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: >> >> Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. >> Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506) > > This has been discussed before on the Org mailing list. > > From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify > instead of htmlize. > > -- The Kafka Pandemic: <http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com> The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. And ANYBODY can get it at any time. "You’ve really gotta quit this and get moving, because this is murder by neglect." --- <http://www.meaction.net/2017/02/03/pwme-people-with-me-are-being-murdered-by-neglect>. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? @ 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales 0 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Samuel Wales @ 2018-09-13 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi Cc: Glenn Morris, n, Richard Stallman, emacs-org list, 32722, Nicolas Goaziou (htmlize-buffer-substring-no-invisible b e) is this function available in emacs? if not, it would be good to extract it and put it in emacs, or write one for emacs. On 9/13/18, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: >> >> Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. >> Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506) > > This has been discussed before on the Org mailing list. > > From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify > instead of htmlize. > > -- The Kafka Pandemic: <http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com> The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. And ANYBODY can get it at any time. "You’ve really gotta quit this and get moving, because this is murder by neglect." --- <http://www.meaction.net/2017/02/03/pwme-people-with-me-are-being-murdered-by-neglect>. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales @ 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales 2018-09-14 2:55 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-14 2:55 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 4 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Samuel Wales @ 2018-09-13 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: rgm, n, rms, mail, 32722 (htmlize-buffer-substring-no-invisible b e) is this function available in emacs? if not, it would be good to extract it and put it in emacs, or write one for emacs. On 9/13/18, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: >> >> Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. >> Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506) > > This has been discussed before on the Org mailing list. > > From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify > instead of htmlize. > > -- The Kafka Pandemic: <http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com> The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. And ANYBODY can get it at any time. "You’ve really gotta quit this and get moving, because this is murder by neglect." --- <http://www.meaction.net/2017/02/03/pwme-people-with-me-are-being-murdered-by-neglect>. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-13 21:58 ` bug#32722: " Samuel Wales @ 2018-09-14 2:55 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-14 2:55 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 4 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-14 2:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: rgm, n, 32722, mail [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > >From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify > instead of htmlize. To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-14 2:55 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-14 2:55 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-14 6:04 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-14 6:04 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 4 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-14 2:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: n, 32722, mail [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > >From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify > instead of htmlize. To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-14 2:55 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-14 6:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-16 12:30 ` Adam Porter 2018-09-14 6:04 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-14 6:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 22:55:15 -0400 > Cc: n@flqt.fr, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr > > > >From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's > > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify > > instead of htmlize. > > To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another > release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? This is an Org issue, so I would like to hear from Org developers before I make up my mind. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-14 6:04 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-16 12:30 ` Adam Porter 2018-09-17 20:21 ` Nick Dokos 0 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Adam Porter @ 2018-09-16 12:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode I'm not an expert on this package nor this situation, however, looking at the htmlize.el file shows: ;; Copyright (C) 1997-2003,2005,2006,2009,2011,2012,2014,2017,2018 So it would appear that the package has existed longer than either GitHub or Org. I'm guessing that its author moved its primary repo to GitHub after Org started using it. In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better to move htmlize into Emacs before adding it to Org proper. But many things are clearer in hindsight. Regardless of where it is hosted, htmlize.el is Free Software, and it's an optional addon to Org. We can encourage its author to add it to Emacs proper, or to ELPA. But surely it's not necessary to censor the mention of "GitHub" in the manual; it's simply a fact that GitHub exists and that htmlize.el is currently hosted there. It would seem unreasonable for the Org maintainers to have reacted to htmlize.el's moving to GitHub by removing htmlize.el support while it remains Free Software, yet that's the logical conclusion of this argument. So please do not remove support for this package because of where its repo happens to be hosted at the moment. That would be a major regression, and it would not be in users' best interests. It would not be fair to remove a major feature used by thousands of users and demand that "someone" (since there is no one ultimately responsible) rewrite large parts of ox-html.el to fix it. It would at least seem fair for those insisting on the change to do the necessary work. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-16 12:30 ` Adam Porter @ 2018-09-17 20:21 ` Nick Dokos 2018-09-18 13:12 ` Bernt Hansen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Nick Dokos @ 2018-09-17 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes: > I'm not an expert on this package nor this situation, however, looking > at the htmlize.el file shows: > > ;; Copyright (C) 1997-2003,2005,2006,2009,2011,2012,2014,2017,2018 > > So it would appear that the package has existed longer than either > GitHub or Org. I'm guessing that its author moved its primary repo to > GitHub after Org started using it. > > In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better to move htmlize into > Emacs before adding it to Org proper. But many things are clearer in > hindsight. > > Regardless of where it is hosted, htmlize.el is Free Software, and it's > an optional addon to Org. We can encourage its author to add it to > Emacs proper, or to ELPA. But surely it's not necessary to censor the > mention of "GitHub" in the manual; it's simply a fact that GitHub exists > and that htmlize.el is currently hosted there. It would seem > unreasonable for the Org maintainers to have reacted to htmlize.el's > moving to GitHub by removing htmlize.el support while it remains Free > Software, yet that's the logical conclusion of this argument. > I had exactly the same reaction. > So please do not remove support for this package because of where its > repo happens to be hosted at the moment. That would be a major > regression, and it would not be in users' best interests. It would not > be fair to remove a major feature used by thousands of users and demand > that "someone" (since there is no one ultimately responsible) rewrite > large parts of ox-html.el to fix it. It would at least seem fair for > those insisting on the change to do the necessary work. > I don't usually +1 replies but I wanted to chime in my agreement with Adam here. Thanks for taking the time to put your (and my!) thoughts into words. If Github is indeed the sticking point, why can't it (the htmlize repo) be cloned on the same server as org-mode (possibly as its own repo, possibly as a git submodule)? It's not a fast moving target: a handful or two of commits per year. The doc can then avoid the Gihub ref (although it does seem silly to pretend that Github does not exist). -- Nick "There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors." -Martin Fowler ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-17 20:21 ` Nick Dokos @ 2018-09-18 13:12 ` Bernt Hansen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Bernt Hansen @ 2018-09-18 13:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nick Dokos; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com> writes: > Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes: > >> I'm not an expert on this package nor this situation, however, looking >> at the htmlize.el file shows: >> >> ;; Copyright (C) 1997-2003,2005,2006,2009,2011,2012,2014,2017,2018 >> >> So it would appear that the package has existed longer than either >> GitHub or Org. I'm guessing that its author moved its primary repo to >> GitHub after Org started using it. >> >> In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better to move htmlize into >> Emacs before adding it to Org proper. But many things are clearer in >> hindsight. >> >> Regardless of where it is hosted, htmlize.el is Free Software, and it's >> an optional addon to Org. We can encourage its author to add it to >> Emacs proper, or to ELPA. But surely it's not necessary to censor the >> mention of "GitHub" in the manual; it's simply a fact that GitHub exists >> and that htmlize.el is currently hosted there. It would seem >> unreasonable for the Org maintainers to have reacted to htmlize.el's >> moving to GitHub by removing htmlize.el support while it remains Free >> Software, yet that's the logical conclusion of this argument. >> > > I had exactly the same reaction. Me too! > >> So please do not remove support for this package because of where its >> repo happens to be hosted at the moment. That would be a major >> regression, and it would not be in users' best interests. It would not >> be fair to remove a major feature used by thousands of users and demand >> that "someone" (since there is no one ultimately responsible) rewrite >> large parts of ox-html.el to fix it. It would at least seem fair for >> those insisting on the change to do the necessary work. >> > > I don't usually +1 replies but I wanted to chime in my agreement with > Adam here. Thanks for taking the time to put your (and my!) thoughts > into words. > > If Github is indeed the sticking point, why can't it (the htmlize > repo) be cloned on the same server as org-mode (possibly as its own > repo, possibly as a git submodule)? It's not a fast moving target: a > handful or two of commits per year. The doc can then avoid the Gihub > ref (although it does seem silly to pretend that Github does not > exist). I completely agree with Adam and Nick's take on this issue. Breaking HTML export by removing htmlize is going to have a huge negative impact on Org users and since the package is already free software what is the point? Regards, Bernt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-14 2:55 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-14 6:04 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-14 6:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 9:37 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 9:37 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-14 6:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 22:55:15 -0400 > Cc: n@flqt.fr, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr > > > >From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's > > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify > > instead of htmlize. > > To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another > release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? This is an Org issue, so I would like to hear from Org developers before I make up my mind. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-14 6:04 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 9:37 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 9:37 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-18 9:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, 32722, rms Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > This is an Org issue, so I would like to hear from Org developers > before I make up my mind. I read the thread multiple times already but I do not understand exactly the issue risen. From the OP: "Emacs quotes Github, a non-free platform." If that's the real problem, we can remove the location of the "htmlize" library from the error message and be done with it. Note that the Org manual still talks about iOS and Android, which are not free either. From Richard Stallman: "Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs". Org Export already advises people to load LaTeX libraries, MathJax, optionally minted, etc. Org Babel requires external libraries like "asy-mode.el" (ob-asymptote.el), "simple-httpd" (ob-js.el)... This is a non-issue for us, because it is inherent to Org and thus cannot be solved by Org. From Glenn Morris: "Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. Is there some obstacle to Org using that?" This is begging for a specific solution to a not-so-well defined problem. In any case, Kaushal Modi answered this one. It is nice if this happens, but could we first define correctly the problem so we can tell if this is the only possible solution for it? From Richard Stallman: "To motivate people to do this, I say we should not ship another release with that reference to GitHub." The issue pointed out here seems to be that Org developers or enthusiasts are not motivated enough to make Org use htmlfontify instead of htmlize. Note this is very different from the initial report. Richard Stallman then suggests a possible fix for that issue. It may or may not work; after all these years spent in education, "motivating people" is a topic that mostly eludes me. Anyway, since this point contains both the question and the answer, I don't know what Org could do about it. This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org developers to solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who is willing to give them a hand? Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-14 6:04 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 9:37 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-18 9:37 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 11:49 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii ` (3 more replies) 1 sibling, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-18 9:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, 32722, rms Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > This is an Org issue, so I would like to hear from Org developers > before I make up my mind. I read the thread multiple times already but I do not understand exactly the issue risen. From the OP: "Emacs quotes Github, a non-free platform." If that's the real problem, we can remove the location of the "htmlize" library from the error message and be done with it. Note that the Org manual still talks about iOS and Android, which are not free either. From Richard Stallman: "Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs". Org Export already advises people to load LaTeX libraries, MathJax, optionally minted, etc. Org Babel requires external libraries like "asy-mode.el" (ob-asymptote.el), "simple-httpd" (ob-js.el)... This is a non-issue for us, because it is inherent to Org and thus cannot be solved by Org. From Glenn Morris: "Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. Is there some obstacle to Org using that?" This is begging for a specific solution to a not-so-well defined problem. In any case, Kaushal Modi answered this one. It is nice if this happens, but could we first define correctly the problem so we can tell if this is the only possible solution for it? From Richard Stallman: "To motivate people to do this, I say we should not ship another release with that reference to GitHub." The issue pointed out here seems to be that Org developers or enthusiasts are not motivated enough to make Org use htmlfontify instead of htmlize. Note this is very different from the initial report. Richard Stallman then suggests a possible fix for that issue. It may or may not work; after all these years spent in education, "motivating people" is a topic that mostly eludes me. Anyway, since this point contains both the question and the answer, I don't know what Org could do about it. This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org developers to solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who is willing to give them a hand? Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 9:37 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-18 11:49 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein 2018-09-18 11:49 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 11:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, 32722, rms > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: rms@gnu.org, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, n@flqt.fr, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:37:15 +0200 > > This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org developers to > solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who is willing to give > them a hand? From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using htmlize to htmlfontify. Can this be done, please? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 11:49 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 12:14 ` Robert Klein 2018-09-19 3:41 ` Richard Stallman ` (3 more replies) 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein 1 sibling, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Robert Klein @ 2018-09-18 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, rms, 32722 On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:49:27 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: > > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > > Cc: rms@gnu.org, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, n@flqt.fr, > > 32722@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:37:15 +0200 > > > > This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org > > developers to solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who > > is willing to give them a hand? > > From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using > htmlize to htmlfontify. Can this be done, please? > > > Not easily, no. Afaik htmlfontify always creates a complete HTML document, which htmlize doesn't. Also, htmlize can format parts of a buffer. which htmlfontify can't. Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools (according to the man page) which might not be available on all platform Emacs and org-mode is used on: - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate - a copy of “sed” - a copy of the “file” command A switch to htmlfontify might end up in rewriting a good part of htmlfontify or some very ugly hacks. If Hrvoje Niksic has or is willing to sign the copyright assignment documents it will be easier to put htmlize.el into Emacs. Best regards Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein @ 2018-09-19 3:41 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, eliz, 32722, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools > (according to the man page) which might not be available on all > platform Emacs and org-mode is used on: > - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate > - a copy of “sed” > - a copy of the “file” command Using them is not a problem. Those are part of the GNU system, and you can install the packages thru your distro's package system (but I expect they are preinstalled anyway). It might be an inconvenience on non-GNU systems. We give them low priority, but if you feel like writing code in htmlfontify to do without them, that is ok. I would expect it is not very hard to fix htmlfontify to solve all its practical drawbacks. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein 2018-09-19 3:41 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:41 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 7:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-19 7:22 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools > (according to the man page) which might not be available on all > platform Emacs and org-mode is used on: > - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate > - a copy of “sed” > - a copy of the “file” command Using them is not a problem. Those are part of the GNU system, and you can install the packages thru your distro's package system (but I expect they are preinstalled anyway). It might be an inconvenience on non-GNU systems. We give them low priority, but if you feel like writing code in htmlfontify to do without them, that is ok. I would expect it is not very hard to fix htmlfontify to solve all its practical drawbacks. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein 2018-09-19 3:41 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 7:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-19 7:22 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 7:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, rms, mail, 32722 > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:14:27 +0200 > From: Robert Klein <roklein@roklein.de> > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, n@flqt.fr, > kaushal.modi@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org > > > From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using > > htmlize to htmlfontify. Can this be done, please? > > Not easily, no. Afaik htmlfontify always creates a complete HTML > document, which htmlize doesn't. Also, htmlize can format parts of a > buffer. which htmlfontify can't. This should be very easy to fix, by using temporary buffers with a copy of the region to produce HTML for. Right? > Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools > (according to the man page) which might not be available on all > platform Emacs and org-mode is used on: > > - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate > - a copy of “sed” > - a copy of the “file” command These are only needed if one invokes htmlfontify-copy-and-link-dir to produce HTML for files in a directory. Is that an important use case for the issue at hand? E.g., if you need to produce HTML for a region of a buffer, these facilities seem to not be relevant, AFAIU. Did I miss something? > A switch to htmlfontify might end up in rewriting a good part of > htmlfontify or some very ugly hacks. I wonder whether we could begin by just supporting the immediate use case(s) in point, maybe that is possible without too much rewriting. > If Hrvoje Niksic has or is willing to sign the copyright assignment > documents it will be easier to put htmlize.el into Emacs. We've been through this several times in the past: it isn't going to happen. I think htmlfontify was added to Emacs for that rteason, among others. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 7:22 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 7:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 7:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, rms, 32722 > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:14:27 +0200 > From: Robert Klein <roklein@roklein.de> > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, n@flqt.fr, > kaushal.modi@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org > > > From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using > > htmlize to htmlfontify. Can this be done, please? > > Not easily, no. Afaik htmlfontify always creates a complete HTML > document, which htmlize doesn't. Also, htmlize can format parts of a > buffer. which htmlfontify can't. This should be very easy to fix, by using temporary buffers with a copy of the region to produce HTML for. Right? > Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools > (according to the man page) which might not be available on all > platform Emacs and org-mode is used on: > > - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate > - a copy of “sed” > - a copy of the “file” command These are only needed if one invokes htmlfontify-copy-and-link-dir to produce HTML for files in a directory. Is that an important use case for the issue at hand? E.g., if you need to produce HTML for a region of a buffer, these facilities seem to not be relevant, AFAIU. Did I miss something? > A switch to htmlfontify might end up in rewriting a good part of > htmlfontify or some very ugly hacks. I wonder whether we could begin by just supporting the immediate use case(s) in point, maybe that is possible without too much rewriting. > If Hrvoje Niksic has or is willing to sign the copyright assignment > documents it will be easier to put htmlize.el into Emacs. We've been through this several times in the past: it isn't going to happen. I think htmlfontify was added to Emacs for that rteason, among others. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 11:49 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein @ 2018-09-18 12:14 ` Robert Klein 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Robert Klein @ 2018-09-18 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, rms, Nicolas Goaziou, 32722 On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:49:27 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: > > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > > Cc: rms@gnu.org, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, n@flqt.fr, > > 32722@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:37:15 +0200 > > > > This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org > > developers to solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who > > is willing to give them a hand? > > From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using > htmlize to htmlfontify. Can this be done, please? > > > Not easily, no. Afaik htmlfontify always creates a complete HTML document, which htmlize doesn't. Also, htmlize can format parts of a buffer. which htmlfontify can't. Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools (according to the man page) which might not be available on all platform Emacs and org-mode is used on: - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate - a copy of “sed” - a copy of the “file” command A switch to htmlfontify might end up in rewriting a good part of htmlfontify or some very ugly hacks. If Hrvoje Niksic has or is willing to sign the copyright assignment documents it will be easier to put htmlize.el into Emacs. Best regards Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 9:37 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 11:49 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 11:49 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 14:21 ` Nick Dokos 2018-09-18 14:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-18 14:43 ` Nicolas Floquet 3 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 11:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, 32722, rms > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: rms@gnu.org, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, n@flqt.fr, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:37:15 +0200 > > This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org developers to > solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who is willing to give > them a hand? From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using htmlize to htmlfontify. Can this be done, please? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 11:49 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 14:21 ` Nick Dokos 2018-09-18 14:49 ` Kaushal Modi 0 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Nick Dokos @ 2018-09-18 14:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org developers to >> solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who is willing to give >> them a hand? > > From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using > htmlize to htmlfontify. Can this be done, please? > Why is that a problem? What do we gain by doing that? What do we lose by staying put on htmlize? These are not rhetorical questions: I really don't understand the problem. -- Nick "There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors." -Martin Fowler ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 14:21 ` Nick Dokos @ 2018-09-18 14:49 ` Kaushal Modi 0 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-18 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nick Dokos; +Cc: emacs-org list On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 10:22 AM Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com> wrote: > Why is that a problem? What do we gain by doing that? What do we lose by staying put > on htmlize? > > These are not rhetorical questions: I really don't understand the problem. > > -- > Nick I also don't get the problem. The software is free. If people don't like the non-free JS on GitHub, they can get htmlize.el using a simple wget or curl from https://raw.githubusercontent.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/master/htmlize.el. In any case, I have asked the htmlize.el author if he is willing to assing his copyright to FSF in this GitHub Issue[0] for anyone interested. [0]: https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/issues/23 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 9:37 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 11:49 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 11:49 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 14:43 ` Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn ` (3 more replies) 2018-09-18 14:43 ` Nicolas Floquet 3 siblings, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-18 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: kaushal.modi, 32722, rms [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1073 bytes --] Le mardi 18 septembre 2018 à 11:37 +0200, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit : > I read the thread multiple times already but I do not understand > exactly the issue risen. Actually, it's an ethical issue. That are not always easily solved with technical solutions, I guess… > From the OP: "Emacs quotes Github, a non-free platform." If that's > the real problem, we can remove the location of the "htmlize" library > from the error message and be done with it. Indeed. > Note that the Org manual still talks about iOS and Android, which are > not free either. It's true. I don't know what to think about this. -- | Numérion | Nicolas Floquet | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Services informatiques en logiciels libres | | XMPP : nflqt@jabber.fr | Tél : 06.32.93.03.51 | | Ğ1 : BjZFP7UpKjJ9hbavhT2Ep2hP58noXp6xdPY4awsX17yD | | PGP : 94C7 641B 719E B06A F406 7AB3 3709 C700 E548 F996 | +----------------------------------------------------------+ [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 14:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-18 16:37 ` Robert Horn 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii ` (5 more replies) 2018-09-18 16:37 ` Robert Horn ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 6 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Robert Horn @ 2018-09-18 16:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Floquet; +Cc: kaushal.modi, rms, Nicolas Goaziou, 32722 Nicolas Floquet writes: > Actually, it's an ethical issue. That are not always easily solved with > technical solutions, I guess… > Perhaps you could clarify the ethical issues. The initial RMS comment on this issue in this thread is: /* from RMS email Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs (counting ELPA). So this needs to be deleted. If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs. Is there some obstacle to that? */ I can hypothesize various ethical, marketing, operational, and user experience reasons for not advising people to load ... Could you explain the ethical issue(s) that are of specific concern. Further from RMS was the suggested technical fix /* from RMS email later in thread To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? */ This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern. I could accept a change such as replacing that reference with text saying "use ???? to find html..." I'm not sure what to suggest since Google, duck-duck-go, and other search engines are all commercial non-free operations. Rehosting onto a free platform, perhaps gnu.org, might be an option. A simple mirror onto a free platform might suffice. Linux, python, and other major open source efforts deal with platform issues by providing their own primary distribution platform. I can seem some ethical concerns with using a proprietary platform. Git was created due to problems with a dependency on a proprietary platform, although in that case it was more related to a divergence in business strategic directions than ethical issues. -- Robert Horn rjhorniii@gmail.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn @ 2018-09-18 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rjhorniii; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, rms, 32722 > From: Robert Horn <rjhorn@panix.com> > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 12:37:45 -0400 > > /* from RMS email later in thread > To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another > release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? > */ > > This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern. We have quite a few references to GitHub in Emacs, just grep for it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein ` (3 more replies) 2018-09-19 3:40 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Richard Stallman ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rjhorniii; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, rms, mail, 32722 > From: Robert Horn <rjhorn@panix.com> > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 12:37:45 -0400 > > /* from RMS email later in thread > To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another > release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? > */ > > This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern. We have quite a few references to GitHub in Emacs, just grep for it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-18 18:53 ` Robert Klein 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Robert Klein @ 2018-09-18 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, 32722, rjhorniii, rms On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:53:14 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: > > From: Robert Horn <rjhorn@panix.com> > > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, Eli Zaretskii > > <eliz@gnu.org>, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, > > rms@gnu.org Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 12:37:45 -0400 > > > > /* from RMS email later in thread > > To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another > > release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? > > */ > > > > This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern. > > We have quite a few references to GitHub in Emacs, just grep for it. > > > That's, what the original message on the bug list refers to, however. I think the original bug report is bogus. Especially in view of your statement above. As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other external stuff (just as htmlfontify does, see my mail and its manual: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/htmlfontify.html#Requirements). The reason, e.g. LaTeX isn't mentioned explicitly in the manual or in org is that it is a well-known software. The link is only given as a friendly hint. Also, in regards to the original bug report, while htmlize is _hosted_ on github, which indeed is not free, htmlize itself _is_ free. Right at the beginning of htmlize.el it says: ;; This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify ;; it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by ;; the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option) ;; any later version. When the original poster doesn't want to use htmlize, he probably should try to export without fontifying source code (I think there's a switch, but I'm not sure). Best regards Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein @ 2018-09-18 18:53 ` Robert Klein 2018-09-18 18:57 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi ` (5 more replies) 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris 3 siblings, 6 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Robert Klein @ 2018-09-18 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, 32722, rjhorniii, rms On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:53:14 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: > > From: Robert Horn <rjhorn@panix.com> > > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, Eli Zaretskii > > <eliz@gnu.org>, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, > > rms@gnu.org Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 12:37:45 -0400 > > > > /* from RMS email later in thread > > To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another > > release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? > > */ > > > > This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern. > > We have quite a few references to GitHub in Emacs, just grep for it. > > > That's, what the original message on the bug list refers to, however. I think the original bug report is bogus. Especially in view of your statement above. As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other external stuff (just as htmlfontify does, see my mail and its manual: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/htmlfontify.html#Requirements). The reason, e.g. LaTeX isn't mentioned explicitly in the manual or in org is that it is a well-known software. The link is only given as a friendly hint. Also, in regards to the original bug report, while htmlize is _hosted_ on github, which indeed is not free, htmlize itself _is_ free. Right at the beginning of htmlize.el it says: ;; This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify ;; it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by ;; the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option) ;; any later version. When the original poster doesn't want to use htmlize, he probably should try to export without fontifying source code (I think there's a switch, but I'm not sure). Best regards Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein @ 2018-09-18 18:57 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-18 18:57 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kaushal Modi ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-18 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, Eli Zaretskii, 32722, rjhorniii, Richard Stallman On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 2:53 PM Robert Klein <roklein@roklein.de> wrote: > When the original poster doesn't want to use htmlize, he probably > should try to export without fontifying source code (I think there's a > switch, but I'm not sure). Setting org-html-htmlize-output-type to nil will not prompt the user to install htmlize. With that setting, code blocks will not be htmlized, and instead just exported as plain text. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 18:57 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-18 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii, Richard Stallman, emacs-org list, Nicolas Goaziou Cc: n, Robert Klein, rjhorniii, 32722 Hello all, I heard back from htmlize.el author Hrvoje Nikšić in his repo's issue thread[0]. So here's the summary: - Hrvoje Nikšić does not want to assign the copyright of htmlize to FSF. So it cannot be part of Emacs, Org mode or even GNU Elpa. - The package will keep living in its GitHub repo. 1. If user has issues with GitHub's non-free JS: - Download htmlize directly from https://raw.githubusercontent.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/master/htmlize.el. 2. If user does not want to use htmlize, or want Org mode to suggest installing it from GitHub, set org-html-htmlize-output-type to nil. Note that the htmlize.el package by itself is GPLv2, so it is free. Does this settle the issue? [0]: https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/issues/23 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, emacs-orgmode, 32722, eliz, roklein [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I heard back from htmlize.el author Hrvoje Nikšić in his repo's issue thread[0]. Thanks for asking him. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, mail, roklein [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I heard back from htmlize.el author Hrvoje Nikšić in his repo's issue thread[0]. Thanks for asking him. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 18:57 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-18 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: eliz, rms, 32722, mail; +Cc: n, roklein, rjhorniii Hello all, I heard back from htmlize.el author Hrvoje Nikšić in his repo's issue thread[0]. So here's the summary: - Hrvoje Nikšić does not want to assign the copyright of htmlize to FSF. So it cannot be part of Emacs, Org mode or even GNU Elpa. - The package will keep living in its GitHub repo. 1. If user has issues with GitHub's non-free JS: - Download htmlize directly from https://raw.githubusercontent.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/master/htmlize.el. 2. If user does not want to use htmlize, or want Org mode to suggest installing it from GitHub, set org-html-htmlize-output-type to nil. Note that the htmlize.el package by itself is GPLv2, so it is free. Does this settle the issue? [0]: https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/issues/23 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein 2018-09-18 18:57 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-18 18:57 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-18 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, 32722, rjhorniii, Richard Stallman On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 2:53 PM Robert Klein <roklein@roklein.de> wrote: > When the original poster doesn't want to use htmlize, he probably > should try to export without fontifying source code (I think there's a > switch, but I'm not sure). Setting org-html-htmlize-output-type to nil will not prompt the user to install htmlize. With that setting, code blocks will not be htmlized, and instead just exported as plain text. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein 2018-09-18 18:57 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-18 18:57 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other > external stuff Those other cases may or may not be problems, depending on the situation. The ability to work with some other free software package (for instance, LaTeX0, if the user happens to use that, is no problem at all. Invoking some separate program, having no particular relationship with Emacs, is ok too if the idea is that that program does some separate job and that's what the user wants to do. However, Emacs should not try to bypass the distro's own package installation system by telling users to install things directly. Would you please show me the other cases where Org suggests loading something else? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-25 23:04 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-25 23:04 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, eliz, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other > external stuff Those other cases may or may not be problems, depending on the situation. The ability to work with some other free software package (for instance, LaTeX0, if the user happens to use that, is no problem at all. Invoking some separate program, having no particular relationship with Emacs, is ok too if the idea is that that program does some separate job and that's what the user wants to do. However, Emacs should not try to bypass the distro's own package installation system by telling users to install things directly. Would you please show me the other cases where Org suggests loading something else? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 3:39 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-25 23:04 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-25 23:04 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-25 23:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [I sent this message a week ago but did not get a response. Could we get the discussion moving again?] [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other > external stuff Those other cases may or may not be problems, depending on the situation. The ability to work with some other free software package (for instance, LaTeX0, if the user happens to use that, is no problem at all. Invoking some separate program, having no particular relationship with Emacs, is ok too if the idea is that that program does some separate job and that's what the user wants to do. However, Emacs should not try to bypass the distro's own package installation system by telling users to install things directly. Would you please show me the other cases where Org suggests loading something else? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-25 23:04 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-25 23:04 ` Richard Stallman 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-25 23:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Klein; +Cc: n, eliz, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [I sent this message a week ago but did not get a response. Could we get the discussion moving again?] [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other > external stuff Those other cases may or may not be problems, depending on the situation. The ability to work with some other free software package (for instance, LaTeX0, if the user happens to use that, is no problem at all. Invoking some separate program, having no particular relationship with Emacs, is ok too if the idea is that that program does some separate job and that's what the user wants to do. However, Emacs should not try to bypass the distro's own package installation system by telling users to install things directly. Would you please show me the other cases where Org suggests loading something else? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein @ 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou ` (3 more replies) 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris 3 siblings, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-18 20:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rms, rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi I think (or rather assume) that the issue is that GitHub receives a grade F ("unacceptable") evaluation acccording to the GNU Ethical Repository Criteria; https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html. So does SourceForge, by the way. While there are numerous references to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-18 21:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi, Eli Zaretskii Hello, Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes: > I think (or rather assume) that the issue is that GitHub receives > a grade F ("unacceptable") evaluation acccording to the GNU Ethical Repository > Criteria; https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html. > So does SourceForge, by the way. While there are numerous references > to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally > live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for > running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install > something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you > wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing. I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are not fontified. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 22:08 ` bug#32722: [O] " Amin Bandali ` (5 more replies) 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 6 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-18 21:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi Hello, Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes: > I think (or rather assume) that the issue is that GitHub receives > a grade F ("unacceptable") evaluation acccording to the GNU Ethical Repository > Criteria; https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html. > So does SourceForge, by the way. While there are numerous references > to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally > live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for > running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install > something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you > wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing. I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are not fontified. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-18 22:08 ` Amin Bandali 2018-09-18 22:08 ` bug#32722: " Amin Bandali ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Amin Bandali @ 2018-09-18 22:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou, Glenn Morris; +Cc: n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: > I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter > to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are > not fontified. I was going to suggest a less harsher and potentially more helpful approach: in the short term, mirror the htmlize repo on code.orgmode.org, the official Gogs instance where Org mode is hosted and developed. In the long term, work on replacing htmlize with htmlfontify. I set up a mirror: https://code.orgmode.org/aminb/emacs-htmlize Assuming code.orgmode.org uses Gogs' default mirror settings, the repo should be automatically synchronized with upstream roughly every 8 hours or so. This way, we'd still be able to point the users to a concrete address to get htmlize from, without directly pointing them to a proprietary platform. Further, we're not claiminig copyright or maintainership of the repo and we're merely mirroring it on a freedom-respecting platform along with Org itself. -amin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 22:08 ` bug#32722: [O] " Amin Bandali @ 2018-09-18 22:08 ` Amin Bandali 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Amin Bandali @ 2018-09-18 22:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou, Glenn Morris Cc: n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi, Eli Zaretskii Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: > I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter > to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are > not fontified. I was going to suggest a less harsher and potentially more helpful approach: in the short term, mirror the htmlize repo on code.orgmode.org, the official Gogs instance where Org mode is hosted and developed. In the long term, work on replacing htmlize with htmlfontify. I set up a mirror: https://code.orgmode.org/aminb/emacs-htmlize Assuming code.orgmode.org uses Gogs' default mirror settings, the repo should be automatically synchronized with upstream roughly every 8 hours or so. This way, we'd still be able to point the users to a concrete address to get htmlize from, without directly pointing them to a proprietary platform. Further, we're not claiminig copyright or maintainership of the repo and we're merely mirroring it on a freedom-respecting platform along with Org itself. -amin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 22:08 ` bug#32722: " Amin Bandali @ 2018-09-19 21:16 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-20 1:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman ` (3 more replies) 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kaushal Modi 1 sibling, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-19 21:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Amin Bandali Cc: Glenn Morris, n, Richard Stallman, 32722, Robert Horn, Eli Zaretskii On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 6:24 PM Amin Bandali <amin@gnu.org> wrote: > > I set up a mirror: https://code.orgmode.org/aminb/emacs-htmlize > > Assuming code.orgmode.org uses Gogs' default mirror settings, the > repo should be automatically synchronized with upstream roughly > every 8 hours or so. > > This way, we'd still be able to point the users to a concrete > address to get htmlize from, without directly pointing them to a > proprietary platform. Further, we're not claiminig copyright or > maintainership of the repo and we're merely mirroring it on a > freedom-respecting platform along with Org itself. I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your mirror[0]. So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in ox-html? [0]: https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/issues/23#issuecomment-422946622 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-20 1:54 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 4:24 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii ` (3 more replies) 2018-09-20 1:54 ` Richard Stallman ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 1:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: n, amin, mail, 32722, rjhorniii [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > This way, we'd still be able to point the users to a concrete > > address to get htmlize from, without directly pointing them to a > > proprietary platform. Further, we're not claiminig copyright or > > maintainership of the repo and we're merely mirroring it on a > > freedom-respecting platform along with Org itself. > I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your mirror[0]. > So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in ox-html? No, it is not ok. We still need to replace htmlize. The deep problem with the reference to htmlize is that it blurs the distinction between Emacs itself and Lisp code that is not part of Emacs. We need to highlight that distinction, not blur it. Please leave the code to suggest loading htmlize deactivated. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 4:24 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 4:24 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 4:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:54:30 -0400 > Cc: n@flqt.fr, amin@gnu.org, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, > rjhorniii@gmail.com > > Please leave the code to suggest loading htmlize deactivated. There's no such code. There's a function that, if invoked, signals an error with this text: "Cannot fontify source block (htmlize.el >= 1.34 required)" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 4:24 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 4:24 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 10:43 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Joe Corneli 2018-09-20 10:43 ` Joe Corneli 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 4:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, mail, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:54:30 -0400 > Cc: n@flqt.fr, amin@gnu.org, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, > rjhorniii@gmail.com > > Please leave the code to suggest loading htmlize deactivated. There's no such code. There's a function that, if invoked, signals an error with this text: "Cannot fontify source block (htmlize.el >= 1.34 required)" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 4:24 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 4:24 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 10:43 ` Joe Corneli 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:13 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 10:43 ` Joe Corneli 3 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Joe Corneli @ 2018-09-20 10:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 2:57 AM Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: > The deep problem with the reference to htmlize is that it > blurs the distinction between Emacs itself > and Lisp code that is not part of Emacs. > We need to highlight that distinction, not blur it. There are a handful of references to MELPA inside Emacs. Are these to be discouraged? If not, htmlize is on MELPA and could be referenced there. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 10:43 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Joe Corneli @ 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:13 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joe Corneli; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > There are a handful of references to MELPA inside Emacs. Are these to > be discouraged? The question is rather broad, so I can only say "it depends". Whether a reference to software outside Emacs is good or bad depends on its semantics -- that is, on what it says _about_ the software that it references -- and on circumstances. Here's a general answer in terms of rules and circumstances. The first question is, does the references tend to encourage, recommend, or lead users to install and use some outside software? If it doesn't, there isn't an issue. In that case, it would normally be a comment in the code, not a message shown to the Emacs user. If it does tend to lead users to install some program, the next question is, is that program free? If not, it may be a moral problem, but that depends. If the code encourages uses of Emacs by users of widely used nonfree program Foo, that's ok. If the code encourages use of nonfree program Foo by users of Emacs, that's bad, so we should remove the message _and_ the code immediately. If the other program is free, the next question is, should this job be done by part of Emacs, or should it be separate? If logically it should be a separate program, such as find, GCC or LaTeX, then it is fine to encourage Emacs users to install it and for Emacs to invoke it. If logically it should be part of Emacs, we should arrange to do the job with code that IS part of Emacs. We could do that by merging the program into Emacs, or packaging it with Emacs, if those are possible. Or we could do it by writing new code. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 10:43 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Joe Corneli 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 10:22 ` bug#32722: [O] " Joe Corneli 2018-09-21 10:22 ` Joe Corneli 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joe Corneli; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > There are a handful of references to MELPA inside Emacs. Are these to > be discouraged? The question is rather broad, so I can only say "it depends". Whether a reference to software outside Emacs is good or bad depends on its semantics -- that is, on what it says _about_ the software that it references -- and on circumstances. Here's a general answer in terms of rules and circumstances. The first question is, does the references tend to encourage, recommend, or lead users to install and use some outside software? If it doesn't, there isn't an issue. In that case, it would normally be a comment in the code, not a message shown to the Emacs user. If it does tend to lead users to install some program, the next question is, is that program free? If not, it may be a moral problem, but that depends. If the code encourages uses of Emacs by users of widely used nonfree program Foo, that's ok. If the code encourages use of nonfree program Foo by users of Emacs, that's bad, so we should remove the message _and_ the code immediately. If the other program is free, the next question is, should this job be done by part of Emacs, or should it be separate? If logically it should be a separate program, such as find, GCC or LaTeX, then it is fine to encourage Emacs users to install it and for Emacs to invoke it. If logically it should be part of Emacs, we should arrange to do the job with code that IS part of Emacs. We could do that by merging the program into Emacs, or packaging it with Emacs, if those are possible. Or we could do it by writing new code. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 2:13 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 10:22 ` Joe Corneli 2018-09-22 1:52 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-22 1:52 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 10:22 ` Joe Corneli 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Joe Corneli @ 2018-09-21 10:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi On Fri, Sep 21 2018, Richard Stallman wrote: > > There are a handful of references to MELPA inside Emacs. Are these to > > be discouraged? > > The question is rather broad, so I can only say "it depends". Whether > a reference to software outside Emacs is good or bad depends on its > semantics -- that is, on what it says _about_ the software that it > references -- and on circumstances. > > Here's a general answer in terms of rules and circumstances. Thank you for the thorough answer. I've checked, and currently all of the references to MELPA tend to encourage interested users to install outside, free, software. > If logically it should be part of Emacs, we should arrange to do the > job with code that IS part of Emacs. At the moment the only *possible* example for this category that I found among the references to code on MELPA is BBDB -- but I assume that there's a longstanding decision that BBDB is best kept separate. (And back to the main theme it seems clear that what htmlize does should logically be part of Emacs.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 10:22 ` bug#32722: [O] " Joe Corneli @ 2018-09-22 1:52 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-22 1:52 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-22 1:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joe Corneli; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I've checked, and currently all of the references to MELPA tend to > encourage interested users to install outside, free, software. Could you tell me about these, one by one, off the list? (First, roughly how many are there?) -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 10:22 ` bug#32722: [O] " Joe Corneli 2018-09-22 1:52 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-22 1:52 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-22 1:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joe Corneli; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I've checked, and currently all of the references to MELPA tend to > encourage interested users to install outside, free, software. Could you tell me about these, one by one, off the list? (First, roughly how many are there?) -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 2:13 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 10:22 ` bug#32722: [O] " Joe Corneli @ 2018-09-21 10:22 ` Joe Corneli 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Joe Corneli @ 2018-09-21 10:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi On Fri, Sep 21 2018, Richard Stallman wrote: > > There are a handful of references to MELPA inside Emacs. Are these to > > be discouraged? > > The question is rather broad, so I can only say "it depends". Whether > a reference to software outside Emacs is good or bad depends on its > semantics -- that is, on what it says _about_ the software that it > references -- and on circumstances. > > Here's a general answer in terms of rules and circumstances. Thank you for the thorough answer. I've checked, and currently all of the references to MELPA tend to encourage interested users to install outside, free, software. > If logically it should be part of Emacs, we should arrange to do the > job with code that IS part of Emacs. At the moment the only *possible* example for this category that I found among the references to code on MELPA is BBDB -- but I assume that there's a longstanding decision that BBDB is best kept separate. (And back to the main theme it seems clear that what htmlize does should logically be part of Emacs.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-20 10:43 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Joe Corneli @ 2018-09-20 10:43 ` Joe Corneli 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Joe Corneli @ 2018-09-20 10:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 2:57 AM Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: > The deep problem with the reference to htmlize is that it > blurs the distinction between Emacs itself > and Lisp code that is not part of Emacs. > We need to highlight that distinction, not blur it. There are a handful of references to MELPA inside Emacs. Are these to be discouraged? If not, htmlize is on MELPA and could be referenced there. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-20 1:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 1:54 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 5:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 1:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: n, amin, 32722, rjhorniii [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > This way, we'd still be able to point the users to a concrete > > address to get htmlize from, without directly pointing them to a > > proprietary platform. Further, we're not claiminig copyright or > > maintainership of the repo and we're merely mirroring it on a > > freedom-respecting platform along with Org itself. > I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your mirror[0]. > So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in ox-html? No, it is not ok. We still need to replace htmlize. The deep problem with the reference to htmlize is that it blurs the distinction between Emacs itself and Lisp code that is not part of Emacs. We need to highlight that distinction, not blur it. Please leave the code to suggest loading htmlize deactivated. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-20 1:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 1:54 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 5:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 5:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: rgm, n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii > From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:16:28 -0400 > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>, n@flqt.fr, > Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Horn <rjhorniii@gmail.com>, > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> > > I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your mirror[0]. > > So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in ox-html? I think we could do better by using htmlfontify.el. I asked a few questions about that in this discussion, see https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32722#95 Would the Org developers please reply to those questions? If indeed it is not hard to adapt htmlfontify to be used by Org, then I think it's a better solution. TIA ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-20 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 8:13 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein ` (3 more replies) 3 siblings, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 5:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kaushal Modi; +Cc: n, rms, mail, amin, 32722, rjhorniii > From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:16:28 -0400 > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>, n@flqt.fr, > Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Horn <rjhorniii@gmail.com>, > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> > > I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your mirror[0]. > > So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in ox-html? I think we could do better by using htmlfontify.el. I asked a few questions about that in this discussion, see https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32722#95 Would the Org developers please reply to those questions? If indeed it is not hard to adapt htmlfontify to be used by Org, then I think it's a better solution. TIA ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 5:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 8:13 ` Robert Klein 2018-09-20 8:13 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Robert Klein @ 2018-09-20 8:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rgm, n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, Kaushal Modi Hi, On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 08:43:19 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: > > From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> > > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:16:28 -0400 > > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, Glenn Morris > > <rgm@gnu.org>, n@flqt.fr, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>, > > 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Horn <rjhorniii@gmail.com>, Eli > > Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> > > > > I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your > > mirror[0]. > > > > So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in > > ox-html? > > I think we could do better by using htmlfontify.el. I asked a few > questions about that in this discussion, see > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32722#95 > > Would the Org developers please reply to those questions? If indeed > it is not hard to adapt htmlfontify to be used by Org, then I think > it's a better solution. Not an “Org developer” -- I guess mostly Nicolas Goaziou can claim that title at the moment with two thirds of all commits last year.. As to your questions: > This should be very easy to fix, by using temporary buffers with a > copy of the region to produce HTML for. Right? plus removing HTML document headers and footers, remove css stuff, rework this, so we have css to include in the final document... > > Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools > > (according to the man page) which might not be available on all > > platform Emacs and org-mode is used on: > > > > - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate > > - a copy of “sed” > > - a copy of the “file” command > > These are only needed if one invokes htmlfontify-copy-and-link-dir to > produce HTML for files in a directory. Is that an important use case > for the issue at hand? E.g., if you need to produce HTML for a region > of a buffer, these facilities seem to not be relevant, AFAIU. Did I > miss something? No. At that moment in the discussion it wasn't clear the issue with htmlize (and github) has been seen fundamentally different by non-org people as opposed to people developing and using org-mode. > > A switch to htmlfontify might end up in rewriting a good part of > > htmlfontify or some very ugly hacks. > > I wonder whether we could begin by just supporting the immediate use > case(s) in point, maybe that is possible without too much rewriting. See above. > > If Hrvoje Niksic has or is willing to sign the copyright assignment > > documents it will be easier to put htmlize.el into Emacs. > > We've been through this several times in the past: it isn't going to > happen. I think htmlfontify was added to Emacs for that rteason, > among others. Sorry, didn't know there's a history. Best regards Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 5:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 8:13 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein @ 2018-09-20 8:13 ` Robert Klein 2018-09-20 19:17 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 19:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Robert Klein @ 2018-09-20 8:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, Kaushal Modi Hi, On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 08:43:19 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: > > From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> > > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:16:28 -0400 > > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, Glenn Morris > > <rgm@gnu.org>, n@flqt.fr, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>, > > 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Horn <rjhorniii@gmail.com>, Eli > > Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> > > > > I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your > > mirror[0]. > > > > So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in > > ox-html? > > I think we could do better by using htmlfontify.el. I asked a few > questions about that in this discussion, see > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32722#95 > > Would the Org developers please reply to those questions? If indeed > it is not hard to adapt htmlfontify to be used by Org, then I think > it's a better solution. Not an “Org developer” -- I guess mostly Nicolas Goaziou can claim that title at the moment with two thirds of all commits last year.. As to your questions: > This should be very easy to fix, by using temporary buffers with a > copy of the region to produce HTML for. Right? plus removing HTML document headers and footers, remove css stuff, rework this, so we have css to include in the final document... > > Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools > > (according to the man page) which might not be available on all > > platform Emacs and org-mode is used on: > > > > - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate > > - a copy of “sed” > > - a copy of the “file” command > > These are only needed if one invokes htmlfontify-copy-and-link-dir to > produce HTML for files in a directory. Is that an important use case > for the issue at hand? E.g., if you need to produce HTML for a region > of a buffer, these facilities seem to not be relevant, AFAIU. Did I > miss something? No. At that moment in the discussion it wasn't clear the issue with htmlize (and github) has been seen fundamentally different by non-org people as opposed to people developing and using org-mode. > > A switch to htmlfontify might end up in rewriting a good part of > > htmlfontify or some very ugly hacks. > > I wonder whether we could begin by just supporting the immediate use > case(s) in point, maybe that is possible without too much rewriting. See above. > > If Hrvoje Niksic has or is willing to sign the copyright assignment > > documents it will be easier to put htmlize.el into Emacs. > > We've been through this several times in the past: it isn't going to > happen. I think htmlfontify was added to Emacs for that rteason, > among others. Sorry, didn't know there's a history. Best regards Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 5:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 8:13 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein 2018-09-20 8:13 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein @ 2018-09-20 19:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 20:50 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 20:50 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 19:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 3 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 19:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, Kaushal Modi Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > I think we could do better by using htmlfontify.el. I asked a few > questions about that in this discussion, see > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32722#95 > > Would the Org developers please reply to those questions? If indeed > it is not hard to adapt htmlfontify to be used by Org, then I think > it's a better solution. I cannot evaluate the difficulty to adapt "ox-html.el" to htmlfontify. I know nothing about either this specific part of the code base or htmlize and I do not use it either. However, I see that "ox-odt.el" already uses htmlfontify, so it might be possible to use a similar mechanism. I assume this is the only way out of this, so I'll have a look at it. But I need time. What would help would be some feedback from users actually tweaking `org-html-htmlize-output-type'. What do they expect from the various values, etc. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 19:17 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 20:50 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 20:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: rgm, n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>, amin@gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, rjhorniii@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 21:17:51 +0200 > > I assume this is the only way out of this, so I'll have a look at it. Thank you. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 19:17 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 20:50 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-10-22 13:13 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 13:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 20:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>, amin@gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, rjhorniii@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 21:17:51 +0200 > > I assume this is the only way out of this, so I'll have a look at it. Thank you. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 20:50 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-10-22 13:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 13:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 13:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rgm, n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> >> I assume this is the only way out of this, so I'll have a look at it. > > Thank you. In an attempt to move Org from htmlize to htmlfontify, I'm encountering an issue with the generated CSS. Exporting the same simple document with htmlize, I get: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- <style type="text/css"> <!-- body { color: #b2b2b2; background-color: #292b2e; } .bold { /* bold */ font-weight: bold; } .comment { /* font-lock-comment-face */ color: #2aa1ae; } .function-name { /* font-lock-function-name-face */ color: #bc6ec5; font-weight: bold; } .italic { /* italic */ font-style: italic; } .keyword { /* font-lock-keyword-face */ color: #4f97d7; font-weight: bold; } .org-block { /* org-block */ color: #cbc1d5; background-color: #2f2b33; } .org-block-begin-line { /* org-block-begin-line */ color: #827591; background-color: #373040; } .org-block-end-line { /* org-block-end-line */ color: #827591; background-color: #373040; } .org-level-1 { /* org-level-1 */ color: #4f97d7; } .parenthesis { /* parenthesis */ color: #686868; } .type { /* font-lock-type-face */ color: #ce537a; font-weight: bold; } a { color: inherit; background-color: inherit; font: inherit; text-decoration: inherit; } a:hover { text-decoration: underline; } --> </style> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Then, with htmlfontify: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- <style type="text/css"><!-- body { font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.default { font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.default a { font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.italic { font-style: italic; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.italic a { font-style: italic; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.bold { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.bold a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.org-block-end-line { color: #827591; background: #373040; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.org-block-end-line a { color: #827591; background: #373040; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.type { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.type a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.function-name { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.function-name a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.org-block { color: #cbc1d5; background: #2f2b33; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.org-block a { color: #cbc1d5; background: #2f2b33; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.keyword { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.keyword a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.parenthesis { color: #686868; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.parenthesis a { color: #686868; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.org-block-begin-line { color: #827591; background: #373040; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.org-block-begin-line a { color: #827591; background: #373040; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.org-level-1 { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.org-level-1 a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.comment { color: #2aa1ae; font-style: normal; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.comment a { color: #2aa1ae; font-style: normal; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } --></style> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Some users reported that htmlfontify output is too verbose (font-style, font-family, font-size...). Is there a way to clean up the output from htmlfontify and include only minimal information? It might be something related to `hfy-default-face-def', but the documentation is not clear to me. Thank you for any help. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 20:50 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-10-22 13:13 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 13:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-10-22 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 13:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> >> I assume this is the only way out of this, so I'll have a look at it. > > Thank you. In an attempt to move Org from htmlize to htmlfontify, I'm encountering an issue with the generated CSS. Exporting the same simple document with htmlize, I get: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- <style type="text/css"> <!-- body { color: #b2b2b2; background-color: #292b2e; } .bold { /* bold */ font-weight: bold; } .comment { /* font-lock-comment-face */ color: #2aa1ae; } .function-name { /* font-lock-function-name-face */ color: #bc6ec5; font-weight: bold; } .italic { /* italic */ font-style: italic; } .keyword { /* font-lock-keyword-face */ color: #4f97d7; font-weight: bold; } .org-block { /* org-block */ color: #cbc1d5; background-color: #2f2b33; } .org-block-begin-line { /* org-block-begin-line */ color: #827591; background-color: #373040; } .org-block-end-line { /* org-block-end-line */ color: #827591; background-color: #373040; } .org-level-1 { /* org-level-1 */ color: #4f97d7; } .parenthesis { /* parenthesis */ color: #686868; } .type { /* font-lock-type-face */ color: #ce537a; font-weight: bold; } a { color: inherit; background-color: inherit; font: inherit; text-decoration: inherit; } a:hover { text-decoration: underline; } --> </style> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Then, with htmlfontify: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- <style type="text/css"><!-- body { font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.default { font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.default a { font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.italic { font-style: italic; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.italic a { font-style: italic; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.bold { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.bold a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.org-block-end-line { color: #827591; background: #373040; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.org-block-end-line a { color: #827591; background: #373040; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.type { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.type a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.function-name { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.function-name a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.org-block { color: #cbc1d5; background: #2f2b33; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.org-block a { color: #cbc1d5; background: #2f2b33; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.keyword { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.keyword a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.parenthesis { color: #686868; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.parenthesis a { color: #686868; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.org-block-begin-line { color: #827591; background: #373040; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.org-block-begin-line a { color: #827591; background: #373040; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; font-style: normal; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.org-level-1 { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.org-level-1 a { font-weight: 700; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; color: #b2b2b2; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } span.comment { color: #2aa1ae; font-style: normal; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; } span.comment a { color: #2aa1ae; font-style: normal; font-family: DejaVu Sans Mono; font-stretch: normal; font-weight: 500; background: #292b2e; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: underline; } --></style> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Some users reported that htmlfontify output is too verbose (font-style, font-family, font-size...). Is there a way to clean up the output from htmlfontify and include only minimal information? It might be something related to `hfy-default-face-def', but the documentation is not clear to me. Thank you for any help. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-10-22 13:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-10-22 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-10-22 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou, Vivek Dasmohapatra Cc: n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, rms@gnu.org, amin@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, rjhorniii@gmail.com, kaushal.modi@gmail.com > Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:13:39 +0200 > > Some users reported that htmlfontify output is too verbose (font-style, > font-family, font-size...). > > Is there a way to clean up the output from htmlfontify and include only > minimal information? It might be something related to > `hfy-default-face-def', but the documentation is not clear to me. I have no idea. CC'ing the author in the hope that he does. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-10-22 13:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-10-22 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-10-22 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou, Vivek Dasmohapatra Cc: rgm, n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, rms@gnu.org, amin@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, rjhorniii@gmail.com, kaushal.modi@gmail.com > Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:13:39 +0200 > > Some users reported that htmlfontify output is too verbose (font-style, > font-family, font-size...). > > Is there a way to clean up the output from htmlfontify and include only > minimal information? It might be something related to > `hfy-default-face-def', but the documentation is not clear to me. I have no idea. CC'ing the author in the hope that he does. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 5:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-20 19:17 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 19:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 23:17 ` Adam Porter 3 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 19:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rgm, n, rms, amin, 32722, rjhorniii, Kaushal Modi Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > I think we could do better by using htmlfontify.el. I asked a few > questions about that in this discussion, see > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32722#95 > > Would the Org developers please reply to those questions? If indeed > it is not hard to adapt htmlfontify to be used by Org, then I think > it's a better solution. I cannot evaluate the difficulty to adapt "ox-html.el" to htmlfontify. I know nothing about either this specific part of the code base or htmlize and I do not use it either. However, I see that "ox-odt.el" already uses htmlfontify, so it might be possible to use a similar mechanism. I assume this is the only way out of this, so I'll have a look at it. But I need time. What would help would be some feedback from users actually tweaking `org-html-htmlize-output-type'. What do they expect from the various values, etc. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 19:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 23:17 ` Adam Porter 2018-09-21 0:39 ` Kaushal Modi 0 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Adam Porter @ 2018-09-20 23:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: > I assume this is the only way out of this, so I'll have a look at it. > But I need time. What would help would be some feedback from users > actually tweaking `org-html-htmlize-output-type'. What do they expect > from the various values, etc. I don't understand what's going on here. The stated problem is that users were encouraged to install software by visiting GitHub's web site, which uses non-free JavaScript. It is not, in fact, necessary to execute that JavaScript to use the site or download htmlize.el. Emacs' built-in eww browser can be used to access the site and download the file. Even Git itself can directly clone from a URL like http://github.com/username/reponame. So there is absolutely no requirement to execute non-free software to retrieve software from GitHub. So the stated problem seems moot in the first place. Assuming that we would rather go the extra mile and not even direct users to GitHub, it's been mentioned by two users on this list that the official htmlize.el repo has been mirrored to code.orgmode.org, with a cron job to update it every 8 hours, and that this has the official blessing of the htmlize.el author. This provides a guilt-free URL to which users may be directed to retrieve htmlize.el. This also solves the stated problem. That's two solutions to the stated problem. Yet, we are still talking about rewriting complicated, unfamiliar code which users depend on, at great cost in time and significant risk of regressions, and I have not seen any technical reasons for doing so. Why? What's going on? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 23:17 ` Adam Porter @ 2018-09-21 0:39 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-21 1:54 ` Adam Porter 0 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-21 0:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Adam Porter; +Cc: emacs-org list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 987 bytes --] On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 7:19 PM Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote: > > Why? What's going on? > I kind of get why the rewrite needs to happen. But I also see that this rewrite is an unfortunate waste of time and resources. The reason is the same why a core Emacs package wouldn't rely on a non-core package, no matter how useful or awesome that package might be. For example, we cannot have a core package, say vc.el rely on hydra.el even though it's in GNU Elpa. It would have been awesome to see all the vc actions in the hydra interface, but that cannot happen until hydra.el is part of the core. With Org/ox-html, it's the same thing. Ox-html is part of Emacs core. So it cannot rely on htmlize.el. The author doesn't want to assign the copyright of the package to FSF. So it cannot be a part of Emacs core (or even GNU Elpa). [Captain hindsight: htmlize.el shouldn't have been used in ox-html in the first place without the author having assigned the copyright to FSF.] > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1687 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 0:39 ` Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-21 1:54 ` Adam Porter 2018-09-21 21:30 ` Kaushal Modi 0 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Adam Porter @ 2018-09-21 1:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes: > With Org/ox-html, it's the same thing. Ox-html is part of Emacs > core. So it cannot rely on htmlize.el. 1. Why not? I just git-blamed this line in ox-html.el: (declare-function htmlize-region "ext:htmlize" (beg end)) It's from February, 2012. That's 6 and a half years, at least, that that code has been present. Why are we suddenly concerned about it? 2. Is Org part of "Emacs core"? I didn't think that was how "Emacs core" was defined, but I may be wrong. It is officially part of Emacs, of course. So is there a distinction between "part of Emacs" and "Emacs core"? If so, is there a difference in policy for those two categories, and is that policy written anywhere? Are there any other "time bombs" in Org that we should be concerned about? 3. Yesterday, RMS posted this: > The deep problem with the reference to htmlize is that it blurs the > distinction between Emacs itself and Lisp code that is not part of > Emacs. We need to highlight that distinction, not blur it. a. That is not the originally stated problem. b. I don't understand how htmlize blurs the distinction between Emacs itself and other lisp code. htmlize is not distributed with Emacs nor Org, and it must be manually retrieved from a third-party repository. Isn't that very much distinct from Emacs itself? Doesn't telling users that they must download and install it separately highlight that distinction? 4. I'm certainly in favor of using built-in libraries as much as possible. If htmlfontify is a better or equivalent solution, and someone's willing to write the code and ensure there are no regressions, that would be great, because it would save users from having to manually install other packages to get expected functionality. 5. Having a passing familiarity with the complexity of the Org code base, I am concerned about the potential for regressions in functionality and usability. I'm also a bit disappointed to see this burden potentially thrust upon Nicolas and other Org maintainers, to replace working code that's existed for over 6 years, for little-to-no technical reason. Their time available for working on Org is very valuable. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 1:54 ` Adam Porter @ 2018-09-21 21:30 ` Kaushal Modi 0 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-21 21:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Adam Porter; +Cc: emacs-org list On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:55 PM Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote: > 1. Why not? I just git-blamed this line in ox-html.el: > > (declare-function htmlize-region "ext:htmlize" (beg end)) > > It's from February, 2012. That's 6 and a half years, at least, that > that code has been present. Why are we suddenly concerned about it? I just so happens that someone recently filed this bug report: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32722. htmlize.el was living in the Org contrib directory until Aug 2017: ===== commit d0ced98943da0e5851ba1145515db27e939bff08 Author: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> Date: Fri Aug 18 09:54:19 2017 +0200 Delete htmlize.el from Org’s contrib directory * lisp/ox-org.el (org-org-publish-to-org): * lisp/ox-html.el (org-html-htmlize-generate-css): (org-html-fontify-code): * lisp/org-agenda.el (org-agenda-write): Throw an error requesting the user to install htmlize.el. * doc/org.texi (Exporting agenda views, Literal examples): Don’t assume htmlize.el is available. You need to install it from https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize See https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/issues/7 for this issue. diff --git a/lisp/ox-html.el b/lisp/ox-html.el --- a/lisp/ox-html.el +++ b/lisp/ox-html.el @@ -1746,1 +1747,1 @@ - (require 'htmlize) + (error "Please install htmlize from https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize")) ===== That change lived in Org master branch (devel) for a while, then propagated to Org 9.1 and eventually to Emacs 26.1 release. So users switching from Emacs 25.3 to 26.1. would see as an abrupt change, when in fact it's just that htmlize.el got removed from contrib and instead started being correctly referenced to its source on GitHub. > 2. Is Org part of "Emacs core"? I didn't think that was how "Emacs > core" was defined, but I may be wrong. It is officially part of Emacs, > of course. So is there a distinction between "part of Emacs" and "Emacs > core"? Sorry, please don't quote me on that. By "Emacs core", I meant all packages that you can get from an Emacs installation without having to fetch one from internet. > Are there any other "time bombs" > in Org that we should be concerned about? Not that I know of. I think this is the only one. > a. That is not the originally stated problem. Yes, I know. The original problem was GitHub, and it snowballed to "htmlize cannot be fetched from outside Emacs". It's just so happens that someone noticed it and filed a bug report. In Emacs 25.3, if htmlize weren't installed, it would have thrown an error when (require 'htmlize) got executed (or not, if people were using org-plus-contrib which htmlize was part of, until Aug 2017). > 4. I'm certainly in favor of using built-in libraries as much as > possible. If htmlfontify is a better or equivalent solution, and > someone's willing to write the code and ensure there are no regressions, > that would be great, because it would save users from having to manually > install other packages to get expected functionality. +1 > 5. Having a passing familiarity with the complexity of the Org code > base, I am concerned about the potential for regressions in > functionality and usability. I'm also a bit disappointed to see this > burden potentially thrust upon Nicolas and other Org maintainers, to > replace working code that's existed for over 6 years, for little-to-no > technical reason. Their time available for working on Org is very > valuable. That's my concern too. And I think that it's mainly Nicolas, and in another thread, he mentioned that he will do this refactoring, but without an urgency (which makes sense). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 22:08 ` bug#32722: " Amin Bandali 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-19 21:16 ` Kaushal Modi 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-19 21:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Amin Bandali; +Cc: n, Richard Stallman, Nicolas Goaziou, 32722, Robert Horn On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 6:24 PM Amin Bandali <amin@gnu.org> wrote: > > I set up a mirror: https://code.orgmode.org/aminb/emacs-htmlize > > Assuming code.orgmode.org uses Gogs' default mirror settings, the > repo should be automatically synchronized with upstream roughly > every 8 hours or so. > > This way, we'd still be able to point the users to a concrete > address to get htmlize from, without directly pointing them to a > proprietary platform. Further, we're not claiminig copyright or > maintainership of the repo and we're merely mirroring it on a > freedom-respecting platform along with Org itself. I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your mirror[0]. So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in ox-html? [0]: https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/issues/23#issuecomment-422946622 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 22:08 ` bug#32722: [O] " Amin Bandali 2018-09-18 22:08 ` bug#32722: " Amin Bandali @ 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter > to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are > not fontified. Thank you. That is a step forward. However, this is still not as it should be. What we really need to do is (1) get htmlize into Emacs, or (2) use some other facility that is in Emacs. Since it now appears we can't do (1), we should do (2). Someone mentioned that there was code in Emacs that we could use instead. It isn't a rush, now, but could someone please volunteer to do this, over the next few months? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: rgm, n, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi, eliz [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter > to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are > not fontified. Thank you. That is a step forward. However, this is still not as it should be. What we really need to do is (1) get htmlize into Emacs, or (2) use some other facility that is in Emacs. Since it now appears we can't do (1), we should do (2). Someone mentioned that there was code in Emacs that we could use instead. It isn't a rush, now, but could someone please volunteer to do this, over the next few months? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 5:21 ` Adam Porter 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 5 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 7:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: rgm, n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, rjhorniii@gmail.com, n@flqt.fr, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:07:19 +0200 > > I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter > to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are > not fontified. Thanks! There's also a similar reference to htmlize in the Org manual, which should, too, should probably be removed. And I'd like to backport these changes to the emacs-26 branch of the Emacs repository. Would it be possible to apply the changes from Org's master branch, or do we need a slightly different set of changes? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 5:21 ` Adam Porter 0 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Adam Porter @ 2018-09-20 5:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Although I've read all of the messages in it, this thread has not been especially easy to follow. Whatever changes are made, we should ensure that there are no regressions as a result. This should mean that: 1. Existing Org users who install the new version of Org and export documents to HTML should not see any changes in the output. 2. New Org users whose first version is the new one should be able to easily get the same HTML output they see existing users getting. If the changes in documentation and in-Emacs messages obscure the necessary steps, it should be considered a significant regression in usability. I can already imagine the messages asking, "How do I get the nice-looking, syntax-highlighted code blocks I see all the other Org users getting?" There are already many questions about Org that are asked over and over again in various places. Let's not add a new one to that list, about something that used to work fine. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou 5 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 7:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, rjhorniii@gmail.com, n@flqt.fr, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:07:19 +0200 > > I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter > to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are > not fontified. Thanks! There's also a similar reference to htmlize in the Org manual, which should, too, should probably be removed. And I'd like to backport these changes to the emacs-26 branch of the Emacs repository. Would it be possible to apply the changes from Org's master branch, or do we need a slightly different set of changes? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (3 more replies) 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 17:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > There's also a similar reference to htmlize in the Org manual, which > should, too, should probably be removed. There are currently four occurrences of "github" in the manual: The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of devices, was started by Richard Moreland and is now in the hands of Sean Escriva. Android users should check out [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg Android]] by Matt Jones. For HTML you need to install Hrvoje Niksic's =htmlize.el= from [[https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize][Hrvoje Niksic's repository]]. Fontified code chunks in LaTeX can be achieved using either the listings package or the [[https://github.com/gpoore/minted][minted]] package. Refer to ~org-export-latex-listings~ for details. If you do think that these URL need to be removed, what would you suggest to use instead? > And I'd like to backport these changes to the emacs-26 branch of the > Emacs repository. Would it be possible to apply the changes from > Org's master branch, or do we need a slightly different set of > changes? I do not know about the exact process of merging Org within Emacs. You can probably cherry-pick the changes from Org's master branch. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: rgm, n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, rjhorniii@gmail.com, n@flqt.fr, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 19:42:50 +0200 > > > There's also a similar reference to htmlize in the Org manual, which > > should, too, should probably be removed. > > There are currently four occurrences of "github" in the manual: > > The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the > /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of devices, was started by Richard > Moreland and is now in the hands of Sean Escriva. Android users > should check out > [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg > Android]] by Matt Jones. > > For HTML you need to install Hrvoje Niksic's =htmlize.el= from > [[https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize][Hrvoje Niksic's > repository]]. > > Fontified code chunks in LaTeX can be achieved using either the > listings package or the [[https://github.com/gpoore/minted][minted]] > package. Refer to ~org-export-latex-listings~ for details. > > If you do think that these URL need to be removed, what would you > suggest to use instead? I spoke only about the URL for htmlize. Is the URL really needed? How long will it take for people to find the package given only its name? Also, I understand it is available from MELPA, in which case mentioning MELPA could be an alternative, if you think you must specify a URL. > > And I'd like to backport these changes to the emacs-26 branch of the > > Emacs repository. Would it be possible to apply the changes from > > Org's master branch, or do we need a slightly different set of > > changes? > > I do not know about the exact process of merging Org within Emacs. You > can probably cherry-pick the changes from Org's master branch. I understand that, I was asking whether the changes need something that doesn't exist in the version of Org on the emacs-26 branch. I understand that the answer is NO. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, rjhorniii@gmail.com, n@flqt.fr, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 19:42:50 +0200 > > > There's also a similar reference to htmlize in the Org manual, which > > should, too, should probably be removed. > > There are currently four occurrences of "github" in the manual: > > The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the > /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of devices, was started by Richard > Moreland and is now in the hands of Sean Escriva. Android users > should check out > [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg > Android]] by Matt Jones. > > For HTML you need to install Hrvoje Niksic's =htmlize.el= from > [[https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize][Hrvoje Niksic's > repository]]. > > Fontified code chunks in LaTeX can be achieved using either the > listings package or the [[https://github.com/gpoore/minted][minted]] > package. Refer to ~org-export-latex-listings~ for details. > > If you do think that these URL need to be removed, what would you > suggest to use instead? I spoke only about the URL for htmlize. Is the URL really needed? How long will it take for people to find the package given only its name? Also, I understand it is available from MELPA, in which case mentioning MELPA could be an alternative, if you think you must specify a URL. > > And I'd like to backport these changes to the emacs-26 branch of the > > Emacs repository. Would it be possible to apply the changes from > > Org's master branch, or do we need a slightly different set of > > changes? > > I do not know about the exact process of merging Org within Emacs. You > can probably cherry-pick the changes from Org's master branch. I understand that, I was asking whether the changes need something that doesn't exist in the version of Org on the emacs-26 branch. I understand that the answer is NO. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: 32722, eliz, n, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the > /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of devices, was started by Richard > Moreland and is now in the hands of Sean Escriva. That should be deleted -- an iOS app is nonfree software. Android users > should check out > [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg > Android]] by Matt Jones. I addressed this at length in another message today. > For HTML you need to install Hrvoje Niksic's =htmlize.el= from > [[https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize][Hrvoje Niksic's > repository]]. That's been changed; I addressed this issue in another message today. > Fontified code chunks in LaTeX can be achieved using either the > listings package or the [[https://github.com/gpoore/minted][minted]] > package. Refer to ~org-export-latex-listings~ for details. Please verify that that is free software. (I expect that it is.) If it is free, then since it is not something that naturally ought to be part of Emacs, suggesting people get it elsewhere is ok. It would be good to refer to a mirror, not github. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: 32722, n, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the > /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of devices, was started by Richard > Moreland and is now in the hands of Sean Escriva. That should be deleted -- an iOS app is nonfree software. Android users > should check out > [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg > Android]] by Matt Jones. I addressed this at length in another message today. > For HTML you need to install Hrvoje Niksic's =htmlize.el= from > [[https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize][Hrvoje Niksic's > repository]]. That's been changed; I addressed this issue in another message today. > Fontified code chunks in LaTeX can be achieved using either the > listings package or the [[https://github.com/gpoore/minted][minted]] > package. Refer to ~org-export-latex-listings~ for details. Please verify that that is free software. (I expect that it is.) If it is free, then since it is not something that naturally ought to be part of Emacs, suggesting people get it elsewhere is ok. It would be good to refer to a mirror, not github. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 17:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rgm, n, rms, 32722, rjhorniii, kaushal.modi Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > There's also a similar reference to htmlize in the Org manual, which > should, too, should probably be removed. There are currently four occurrences of "github" in the manual: The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of devices, was started by Richard Moreland and is now in the hands of Sean Escriva. Android users should check out [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg Android]] by Matt Jones. For HTML you need to install Hrvoje Niksic's =htmlize.el= from [[https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize][Hrvoje Niksic's repository]]. Fontified code chunks in LaTeX can be achieved using either the listings package or the [[https://github.com/gpoore/minted][minted]] package. Refer to ~org-export-latex-listings~ for details. If you do think that these URL need to be removed, what would you suggest to use instead? > And I'd like to backport these changes to the emacs-26 branch of the > Emacs repository. Would it be possible to apply the changes from > Org's master branch, or do we need a slightly different set of > changes? I do not know about the exact process of merging Org within Emacs. You can probably cherry-pick the changes from Org's master branch. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, kaushal.modi, eliz [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > While there are numerous references > to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally > live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for > running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install > something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you > wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing. You've put your finger on the crucial point. Just talking about something that is in GitHub is ok. The problem is suggest users get it and run it. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 3 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > While there are numerous references > to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally > live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for > running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install > something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you > wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing. You've put your finger on the crucial point. Just talking about something that is in GitHub is ok. The problem is suggest users get it and run it. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 7:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > Cc: eliz@gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, rjhorniii@gmail.com, > 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, > kaushal.modi@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:39:49 -0400 > > > While there are numerous references > > to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally > > live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for > > running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install > > something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you > > wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing. > > You've put your finger on the crucial point. > Just talking about something that is in GitHub is ok. > The problem is suggest users get it and run it. If that is the crucial point, then the recent change to Org already took care of that, and there should be no rush to convert Org to using htmlfontify, as this issue is now on the same level as the other references to GitHub. Right? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 1:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > If that is the crucial point, then the recent change to Org already > took care of that, That depends on what the changed text actually says. I have not seen it; would you please send it to me? and there should be no rush to convert Org to using > htmlfontify, as this issue is now on the same level as the other > references to GitHub. Right? I wouldn't assume all those mentions are similar cases. This is a matter of details, and I have not seen them, so I don't know whether they are real problems or not. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 4:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, kaushal.modi > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > Cc: n@flqt.fr, rjhorniii@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, > mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, kaushal.modi@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:50:43 -0400 > > > If that is the crucial point, then the recent change to Org already > > took care of that, > > That depends on what the changed text actually says. I have not seen it; > would you please send it to me? There's no changed text: the original message telling from where to install htmlize was deleted. There's now only the error message (which was there before) saying that htmlize is required. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-20 4:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > Cc: n@flqt.fr, rjhorniii@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, > mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, kaushal.modi@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:50:43 -0400 > > > If that is the crucial point, then the recent change to Org already > > took care of that, > > That depends on what the changed text actually says. I have not seen it; > would you please send it to me? There's no changed text: the original message telling from where to install htmlize was deleted. There's now only the error message (which was there before) saying that htmlize is required. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > There's no changed text: the original message telling from where to > install htmlize was deleted. There's now only the error message > (which was there before) saying that htmlize is required. The real problem is that Emacs depends on something that ought to be part of Emacs but isn't. This change makes the problem less blatant, but doesn't really fix it. The change that has been made is good enough temporarily. if people are going to implement replacement code soon, we can leave it this way in the mean time. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > There's no changed text: the original message telling from where to > install htmlize was deleted. There's now only the error message > (which was there before) saying that htmlize is required. The real problem is that Emacs depends on something that ought to be part of Emacs but isn't. This change makes the problem less blatant, but doesn't really fix it. The change that has been made is good enough temporarily. if people are going to implement replacement code soon, we can leave it this way in the mean time. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman @ 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2019-05-16 15:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1725 bytes --] Hello. Le jeudi 20 septembre 2018 à 22:18 -0400, Richard Stallman a écrit : > The real problem is that Emacs depends on something that ought to be > part of Emacs but isn't. This change makes the problem less blatant, > but doesn't really fix it. > > The change that has been made is good enough temporarily. > if people are going to implement replacement code soon, > we can leave it this way in the mean time. > The problem is not solved on emacs 26.2. $ git clone https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode.git $ cd org-mode $ grep github ./lisp/*el ./lisp/ob-clojure.el:;; For Cider, see https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider * ./lisp/ob-groovy.el:;; https://github.com/russel/Emacs-Groovy-Mode ./lisp/ob-io.el:;; https://github.com/stevedekorte/io/blob/master/extras/SyntaxHighlighters/Emacs/io-mode.el ./lisp/ob-js.el:;; or mozrepl http://wiki.github.com/bard/mozrepl/ ./lisp/ob-js.el:;; http://wiki.github.com/bard/mozrepl/emacs-integration for ./lisp/ob-lisp.el:;; - https://github.com/capitaomorte/sly ./lisp/ob-lua.el:;; https://github.com/immerrr/lua-mode ./lisp/ob-processing.el:;; - processing2-emacs mode :: https://github.com/ptrv/processing2-emacs ./lisp/ob-ruby.el:;; http://github.com/eschulte/rinari/raw/master/util/ruby-mode.el ./lisp/ob-ruby.el:;; http://github.com/eschulte/rinari/raw/master/util/inf-ruby.el ./lisp/ob-sass.el:;; - sass-mode :: http://github.com/nex3/haml/blob/master/extra/sass-mode.el ./lisp/ob-shen.el:;; https://github.com/eschulte/shen-mode Thank you for all the work done. -- Nicolas Floquet 06.32.93.03.51 http://syntax61.fr/ https://deontobox.org/ http://www.pharmanerd.flqt.fr/ https://forum.normandie-libre.fr/ [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet @ 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2019-05-16 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 564 bytes --] Le jeudi 16 mai 2019 à 17:16 +0200, Nicolas Floquet a écrit : > The problem is not solved on emacs 26.2. I have just humbly made a little commit wich is not the best solution, take in consideration that I am not a programmer… I can not currently do better ! :-) https://code.orgmode.org/nflqt/org-mode/commit/11206b40781b9f04912cb1c538a6b936c8dadc21 > Thank you for all the work done. Again. -- Nicolas Floquet 06.32.93.03.51 http://syntax61.fr/ https://deontobox.org/ http://www.pharmanerd.flqt.fr/ https://forum.normandie-libre.fr/ [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet @ 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-06-09 16:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Amin Bandali 2019-06-09 16:54 ` bug#32722: " Amin Bandali 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2019-05-16 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 564 bytes --] Le jeudi 16 mai 2019 à 17:16 +0200, Nicolas Floquet a écrit : > The problem is not solved on emacs 26.2. I have just humbly made a little commit wich is not the best solution, take in consideration that I am not a programmer… I can not currently do better ! :-) https://code.orgmode.org/nflqt/org-mode/commit/11206b40781b9f04912cb1c538a6b936c8dadc21 > Thank you for all the work done. Again. -- Nicolas Floquet 06.32.93.03.51 http://syntax61.fr/ https://deontobox.org/ http://www.pharmanerd.flqt.fr/ https://forum.normandie-libre.fr/ [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet @ 2019-06-09 16:54 ` Amin Bandali 2019-06-09 16:54 ` bug#32722: " Amin Bandali 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Amin Bandali @ 2019-06-09 16:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Floquet; +Cc: rms, rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi Nicolas Floquet <n@flqt.fr> writes: > Le jeudi 16 mai 2019 à 17:16 +0200, Nicolas Floquet a écrit : >> The problem is not solved on emacs 26.2. > > I have just humbly made a little commit wich is not the best solution, > take in consideration that I am not a programmer… I can not currently > do better ! :-) > https://code.orgmode.org/nflqt/org-mode/commit/11206b40781b9f04912cb1c538a6b936c8dadc21 > I set that mirror up last year around when the bug report was submitted. I see in 50aca8422b [0] on the org-mode repo @ngz removed references to the GitHub repo from lisp/ox-html.el, as I believe there was some talk to use Emacs’s htmlfontify instead of htmlize. But I’m not aware of any progress on that front. Further, references to the GitHub repo still remain in lisp/ox-org.el, lisp/org-agenda.el, and lisp/org-manual.org; the first two of which were addressed by @nflqt’s commit above. [0]: https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/50aca8422b0afd4a2173ac93225fa9b39a94d8dd @ngz, until such time as htmlfontify fully replaces org-mode’s uses of htmlize, what do you think about (partially) reverting your 50aca8422b and instead of linking to the htmlize repo on GitHub or no link at all, link to https://code.orgmode.org/mirrors/emacs-htmlize instead? > > >> Thank you for all the work done. > > Again. Best, amin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-06-09 16:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Amin Bandali @ 2019-06-09 16:54 ` Amin Bandali 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Amin Bandali @ 2019-06-09 16:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Floquet; +Cc: rms, rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi, Eli Zaretskii Nicolas Floquet <n@flqt.fr> writes: > Le jeudi 16 mai 2019 à 17:16 +0200, Nicolas Floquet a écrit : >> The problem is not solved on emacs 26.2. > > I have just humbly made a little commit wich is not the best solution, > take in consideration that I am not a programmer… I can not currently > do better ! :-) > https://code.orgmode.org/nflqt/org-mode/commit/11206b40781b9f04912cb1c538a6b936c8dadc21 > I set that mirror up last year around when the bug report was submitted. I see in 50aca8422b [0] on the org-mode repo @ngz removed references to the GitHub repo from lisp/ox-html.el, as I believe there was some talk to use Emacs’s htmlfontify instead of htmlize. But I’m not aware of any progress on that front. Further, references to the GitHub repo still remain in lisp/ox-org.el, lisp/org-agenda.el, and lisp/org-manual.org; the first two of which were addressed by @nflqt’s commit above. [0]: https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/50aca8422b0afd4a2173ac93225fa9b39a94d8dd @ngz, until such time as htmlfontify fully replaces org-mode’s uses of htmlize, what do you think about (partially) reverting your 50aca8422b and instead of linking to the htmlize repo on GitHub or no link at all, link to https://code.orgmode.org/mirrors/emacs-htmlize instead? > > >> Thank you for all the work done. > > Again. Best, amin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet @ 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2019-05-16 15:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rjhorniii, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1725 bytes --] Hello. Le jeudi 20 septembre 2018 à 22:18 -0400, Richard Stallman a écrit : > The real problem is that Emacs depends on something that ought to be > part of Emacs but isn't. This change makes the problem less blatant, > but doesn't really fix it. > > The change that has been made is good enough temporarily. > if people are going to implement replacement code soon, > we can leave it this way in the mean time. > The problem is not solved on emacs 26.2. $ git clone https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode.git $ cd org-mode $ grep github ./lisp/*el ./lisp/ob-clojure.el:;; For Cider, see https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider * ./lisp/ob-groovy.el:;; https://github.com/russel/Emacs-Groovy-Mode ./lisp/ob-io.el:;; https://github.com/stevedekorte/io/blob/master/extras/SyntaxHighlighters/Emacs/io-mode.el ./lisp/ob-js.el:;; or mozrepl http://wiki.github.com/bard/mozrepl/ ./lisp/ob-js.el:;; http://wiki.github.com/bard/mozrepl/emacs-integration for ./lisp/ob-lisp.el:;; - https://github.com/capitaomorte/sly ./lisp/ob-lua.el:;; https://github.com/immerrr/lua-mode ./lisp/ob-processing.el:;; - processing2-emacs mode :: https://github.com/ptrv/processing2-emacs ./lisp/ob-ruby.el:;; http://github.com/eschulte/rinari/raw/master/util/ruby-mode.el ./lisp/ob-ruby.el:;; http://github.com/eschulte/rinari/raw/master/util/inf-ruby.el ./lisp/ob-sass.el:;; - sass-mode :: http://github.com/nex3/haml/blob/master/extra/sass-mode.el ./lisp/ob-shen.el:;; https://github.com/eschulte/shen-mode Thank you for all the work done. -- Nicolas Floquet 06.32.93.03.51 http://syntax61.fr/ https://deontobox.org/ http://www.pharmanerd.flqt.fr/ https://forum.normandie-libre.fr/ [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 1:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rjhorniii, 32722, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > If that is the crucial point, then the recent change to Org already > took care of that, That depends on what the changed text actually says. I have not seen it; would you please send it to me? and there should be no rush to convert Org to using > htmlfontify, as this issue is now on the same level as the other > references to GitHub. Right? I wouldn't assume all those mentions are similar cases. This is a matter of details, and I have not seen them, so I don't know whether they are real problems or not. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 7:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: rgm, n, rjhorniii, 32722, kaushal.modi > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > Cc: eliz@gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, rjhorniii@gmail.com, > 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, > kaushal.modi@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:39:49 -0400 > > > While there are numerous references > > to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally > > live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for > > running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install > > something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you > > wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing. > > You've put your finger on the crucial point. > Just talking about something that is in GitHub is ok. > The problem is suggest users get it and run it. If that is the crucial point, then the recent change to Org already took care of that, and there should be no rush to convert Org to using htmlfontify, as this issue is now on the same level as the other references to GitHub. Right? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-18 20:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rms, rjhorniii, 32722, kaushal.modi I think (or rather assume) that the issue is that GitHub receives a grade F ("unacceptable") evaluation acccording to the GNU Ethical Repository Criteria; https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html. So does SourceForge, by the way. While there are numerous references to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-19 3:40 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:40 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rjhorniii; +Cc: n, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern. The concern is _about_ the reference to GitHub, but what _makes it a problem_ is that it is suggesting that people load specific code from there. THAT is the issue here. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 3:40 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:40 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-24 9:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-24 9:54 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Floquet 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rjhorniii; +Cc: n, 32722, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern. The concern is _about_ the reference to GitHub, but what _makes it a problem_ is that it is suggesting that people load specific code from there. THAT is the issue here. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 3:40 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-24 9:54 ` Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-24 9:54 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Floquet 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-24 9:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rjhorniii; +Cc: kaushal.modi, rms, Nicolas Goaziou, 32722 [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2378 bytes --] Hello, Le mardi 18 septembre 2018 à 12:37 -0400, Robert Horn a écrit : > Perhaps you could clarify the ethical issues. I apologise: 1. first, to have sent you a badly edited bug report, 2. second, the late sending of this clarification email. This can be explained by * My own difficulty to use the English language (on this point, I have asked a translator friend of mine to translate my words. What you are now reading is the fruit of her work) * The difficulty to convey the issue arisen by GitHub (as a proprietary tool) in the Free Software movement. (This issue has already been brought up for instance in 2010 by B Mako Hill: https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html here translated in French https://framablog.org/2010/09/08/logiciels-libres-mais-outils-non-libres/ ). GitHub, as a platform based on proprietary software is a trap for the developers who use it, particularly because they get into work habits that tie them to one only service provider on the Internet, which is contrary to the very principle of Internet, centre-less network. Yet getting the Internet recentralised would have harmful consequences as much ethically as technically. Therefore, in explaining to its own users to seek some coding on GitHub, or any other non-ethical platform, Emacs "prescribes" the following message to its users: "GitHub? Meh... just some non-open JavaScript" … Download on GitHub, code on GitHub! No, don't fuss over it! Incidentally, programmers of free alternatives to GitHub are cool but their work is not very important." Last one more word about those worried by the loss of visibility of their work by having to leave GitHub. May they know that several software forge projects from now on are getting interested in the ActivityPub protocol, which will allow the launching of connected forges into a federation. Thank you for having read on. -- | Numérion | Nicolas Floquet | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Services informatiques en logiciels libres | | XMPP : nflqt@jabber.fr | Tél : 06.32.93.03.51 | | Ğ1 : BjZFP7UpKjJ9hbavhT2Ep2hP58noXp6xdPY4awsX17yD | | PGP : 94C7 641B 719E B06A F406 7AB3 3709 C700 E548 F996 | +----------------------------------------------------------+ [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-24 9:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-24 9:54 ` Nicolas Floquet 5 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-24 9:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rjhorniii; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, kaushal.modi, rms, Nicolas Goaziou, 32722 [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2378 bytes --] Hello, Le mardi 18 septembre 2018 à 12:37 -0400, Robert Horn a écrit : > Perhaps you could clarify the ethical issues. I apologise: 1. first, to have sent you a badly edited bug report, 2. second, the late sending of this clarification email. This can be explained by * My own difficulty to use the English language (on this point, I have asked a translator friend of mine to translate my words. What you are now reading is the fruit of her work) * The difficulty to convey the issue arisen by GitHub (as a proprietary tool) in the Free Software movement. (This issue has already been brought up for instance in 2010 by B Mako Hill: https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html here translated in French https://framablog.org/2010/09/08/logiciels-libres-mais-outils-non-libres/ ). GitHub, as a platform based on proprietary software is a trap for the developers who use it, particularly because they get into work habits that tie them to one only service provider on the Internet, which is contrary to the very principle of Internet, centre-less network. Yet getting the Internet recentralised would have harmful consequences as much ethically as technically. Therefore, in explaining to its own users to seek some coding on GitHub, or any other non-ethical platform, Emacs "prescribes" the following message to its users: "GitHub? Meh... just some non-open JavaScript" … Download on GitHub, code on GitHub! No, don't fuss over it! Incidentally, programmers of free alternatives to GitHub are cool but their work is not very important." Last one more word about those worried by the loss of visibility of their work by having to leave GitHub. May they know that several software forge projects from now on are getting interested in the ActivityPub protocol, which will allow the launching of connected forges into a federation. Thank you for having read on. -- | Numérion | Nicolas Floquet | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Services informatiques en logiciels libres | | XMPP : nflqt@jabber.fr | Tél : 06.32.93.03.51 | | Ğ1 : BjZFP7UpKjJ9hbavhT2Ep2hP58noXp6xdPY4awsX17yD | | PGP : 94C7 641B 719E B06A F406 7AB3 3709 C700 E548 F996 | +----------------------------------------------------------+ [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 14:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn @ 2018-09-18 16:37 ` Robert Horn 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Robert Horn @ 2018-09-18 16:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Floquet; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, kaushal.modi, rms, 32722 Nicolas Floquet writes: > Actually, it's an ethical issue. That are not always easily solved with > technical solutions, I guess… > Perhaps you could clarify the ethical issues. The initial RMS comment on this issue in this thread is: /* from RMS email Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs (counting ELPA). So this needs to be deleted. If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs. Is there some obstacle to that? */ I can hypothesize various ethical, marketing, operational, and user experience reasons for not advising people to load ... Could you explain the ethical issue(s) that are of specific concern. Further from RMS was the suggested technical fix /* from RMS email later in thread To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another release with that reference to GitHub. Eli, do you agree? */ This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern. I could accept a change such as replacing that reference with text saying "use ???? to find html..." I'm not sure what to suggest since Google, duck-duck-go, and other search engines are all commercial non-free operations. Rehosting onto a free platform, perhaps gnu.org, might be an option. A simple mirror onto a free platform might suffice. Linux, python, and other major open source efforts deal with platform issues by providing their own primary distribution platform. I can seem some ethical concerns with using a proprietary platform. Git was created due to problems with a dependency on a proprietary platform, although in that case it was more related to a divergence in business strategic directions than ethical issues. -- Robert Horn rjhorniii@gmail.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 14:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn 2018-09-18 16:37 ` Robert Horn @ 2018-09-19 3:41 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Floquet; +Cc: 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Note that the Org manual still talks about iOS and Android, which are > > not free either. That may or may not be a problem, depending on what it says. Can you show me what it actually says about those nonfree systems? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 14:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:41 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 12:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-19 12:29 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou 3 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 3:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Floquet; +Cc: eliz, 32722, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Note that the Org manual still talks about iOS and Android, which are > > not free either. That may or may not be a problem, depending on what it says. Can you show me what it actually says about those nonfree systems? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-19 12:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-19 12:29 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-19 12:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: Nicolas Floquet, eliz, 32722, kaushal.modi Hello, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > That may or may not be a problem, depending on what it says. Can you > show me what it actually says about those nonfree systems? All references are related to the appendix about MobileOrg, an application for viewing and capturing entries from a mobile device. Relevant parts include references to Apple and Google products in addition to Dropbox: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- MobileOrg is a companion mobile app that runs on iOS and Android devices. MobileOrg enables offline-views and capture support for an Org mode system that is rooted on a "real" computer. MobileOrg can record changes to existing entries. The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of devices, was started by Richard Moreland and is now in the hands of Sean Escriva. Android users should check out [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg Android]] by Matt Jones. Though the two implementations are not identical, they offer similar features. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- MobileOrg needs access to a file directory on a server to interact with Emacs. With a public server, consider encrypting the files. MobileOrg version 1.5 supports encryption for the iPhone. Org also requires =openssl= installed on the local computer. To turn on encryption, set the same password in MobileOrg and in Emacs. Set the password in the variable ~org-mobile-use-encryption~[fn:145]. Note that even after MobileOrg encrypts the file contents, the file name remains visible on the file systems of the local computer, the server, and the mobile device. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- For a server to host files, consider options like [[http://dropbox.com][Dropbox.com]] account[fn:146]. On first connection, MobileOrg creates a directory =MobileOrg= on Dropbox. Pass its location to Emacs through an initialisation file variable as follows: #+begin_src emacs-lisp (setq org-mobile-directory "~/Dropbox/MobileOrg") #+end_src --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Here is the footnote from the last excerpt: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- [fn:146] An alternative is to use a WebDAV server. MobileOrg documentation has details of WebDAV server configuration. Additional help is at this [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav][FAQ entry]]. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- I think that is about it. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 12:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-19 12:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-19 12:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: Nicolas Floquet, 32722, kaushal.modi Hello, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > That may or may not be a problem, depending on what it says. Can you > show me what it actually says about those nonfree systems? All references are related to the appendix about MobileOrg, an application for viewing and capturing entries from a mobile device. Relevant parts include references to Apple and Google products in addition to Dropbox: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- MobileOrg is a companion mobile app that runs on iOS and Android devices. MobileOrg enables offline-views and capture support for an Org mode system that is rooted on a "real" computer. MobileOrg can record changes to existing entries. The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of devices, was started by Richard Moreland and is now in the hands of Sean Escriva. Android users should check out [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg Android]] by Matt Jones. Though the two implementations are not identical, they offer similar features. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- MobileOrg needs access to a file directory on a server to interact with Emacs. With a public server, consider encrypting the files. MobileOrg version 1.5 supports encryption for the iPhone. Org also requires =openssl= installed on the local computer. To turn on encryption, set the same password in MobileOrg and in Emacs. Set the password in the variable ~org-mobile-use-encryption~[fn:145]. Note that even after MobileOrg encrypts the file contents, the file name remains visible on the file systems of the local computer, the server, and the mobile device. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- For a server to host files, consider options like [[http://dropbox.com][Dropbox.com]] account[fn:146]. On first connection, MobileOrg creates a directory =MobileOrg= on Dropbox. Pass its location to Emacs through an initialisation file variable as follows: #+begin_src emacs-lisp (setq org-mobile-directory "~/Dropbox/MobileOrg") #+end_src --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Here is the footnote from the last excerpt: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- [fn:146] An alternative is to use a WebDAV server. MobileOrg documentation has details of WebDAV server configuration. Additional help is at this [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav][FAQ entry]]. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- I think that is about it. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 12:29 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 12:40 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou ` (3 more replies) 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 1:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, 32722, rms [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The crucial question here is whether Mobile.org is free software. If it is not, then GNU packages including their documentation should not mention it at all. See the chapter References in the GNU Coding Standards. What is the source license of Mobile.org? Does Mobile.org for Android link with any nonfree libraries, such as Google Play Library? Is it listed in f-droid.org? I don't think it is possible to have free apps for the iMonsters. This is because iOS does not allow users to install modified versions of apps, even if the app's source is released under a free license. Another issue is the suggestion to use DropBox. Normal use of Dropbox involves running nonfree JS software (see https://gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html), so we cannot recommend using Dropbox in the normal way. If there is a way to use Dropbox (for those operations that are necessary in this context) without running any nonfree client software, it would be ok to recommend using Dropbox _in that way_. (The operations necessary in this context must include creating an account.) However, the text you showed me does not include such a specific recommendation, so we have to eliminate it. We could reinsert the discussion of Dropbox if and when someone writes text to recommend a suitable specific way to use it. > [fn:146] An alternative is to use a WebDAV server. MobileOrg > documentation has details of WebDAV server configuration. Additional > help is at this [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav][FAQ entry]]. Is this a way to use MobileOrg without Dropbox? Is the WebDAV server code free software? Can you talk to such a server without any nonfree client software? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 12:40 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 12:40 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 12:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: n, 32722, kaushal.modi Hello, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > What is the source license of Mobile.org? It is GPL2+. > Does Mobile.org for Android link with any nonfree libraries, > such as Google Play Library? No idea. > Is it listed in f-droid.org? Yes, it is. > If there is a way to use Dropbox (for those operations that are > necessary in this context) without running any nonfree client > software, it would be ok to recommend using Dropbox _in that way_. > (The operations necessary in this context must include creating an > account.) I don't know. > Is this a way to use MobileOrg without Dropbox? Yes, it is. MobileOrg just needs to get read/write access to some Org files from anywhere. Dropbox is one way to do that. Any online storage with WebDAV support fits the bill, too. I think Dropbox is being mentioned because it may not be trivial for users to do self-hosting or to find an ethical location for their files. So, here comes the ready-to-use solution. > Is the WebDAV server code free software? At least some implementations are, e.g., Nextcloud, listed in the FSF directory. > Can you talk to such a server without any nonfree client software? I do it with Gnome file manager. There is also an official client for Nextcloud, which is free. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 12:40 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 12:40 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 14:31 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-20 14:31 ` bug#32722: " Michael Albinus 2018-09-20 12:59 ` bug#32722: [O] " Bingo UV 2018-09-20 12:59 ` Bingo UV 3 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 12:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: n, 32722, kaushal.modi Hello, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > What is the source license of Mobile.org? It is GPL2+. > Does Mobile.org for Android link with any nonfree libraries, > such as Google Play Library? No idea. > Is it listed in f-droid.org? Yes, it is. > If there is a way to use Dropbox (for those operations that are > necessary in this context) without running any nonfree client > software, it would be ok to recommend using Dropbox _in that way_. > (The operations necessary in this context must include creating an > account.) I don't know. > Is this a way to use MobileOrg without Dropbox? Yes, it is. MobileOrg just needs to get read/write access to some Org files from anywhere. Dropbox is one way to do that. Any online storage with WebDAV support fits the bill, too. I think Dropbox is being mentioned because it may not be trivial for users to do self-hosting or to find an ethical location for their files. So, here comes the ready-to-use solution. > Is the WebDAV server code free software? At least some implementations are, e.g., Nextcloud, listed in the FSF directory. > Can you talk to such a server without any nonfree client software? I do it with Gnome file manager. There is also an official client for Nextcloud, which is free. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 12:40 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 14:31 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-20 14:31 ` bug#32722: " Michael Albinus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-20 14:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: 32722, n, Richard Stallman, kaushal.modi Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: > Hello, Hi, >> Is the WebDAV server code free software? > > At least some implementations are, e.g., Nextcloud, listed in the FSF > directory. > >> Can you talk to such a server without any nonfree client software? > > I do it with Gnome file manager. There is also an official client for > Nextcloud, which is free. For the records, Emacs 27.0.50 / Tramp 2.4.1-pre got a nextcloud client for GNU/Linux systems. Like the Gnome File Manager it uses the GVFS library and tools. > Regards, Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 12:40 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 14:31 ` Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-20 14:31 ` Michael Albinus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-20 14:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: 32722, n, Richard Stallman, kaushal.modi Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: > Hello, Hi, >> Is the WebDAV server code free software? > > At least some implementations are, e.g., Nextcloud, listed in the FSF > directory. > >> Can you talk to such a server without any nonfree client software? > > I do it with Gnome file manager. There is also an official client for > Nextcloud, which is free. For the records, Emacs 27.0.50 / Tramp 2.4.1-pre got a nextcloud client for GNU/Linux systems. Like the Gnome File Manager it uses the GVFS library and tools. > Regards, Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 12:40 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 12:40 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-20 12:59 ` Bingo UV 2018-09-20 12:59 ` Bingo UV 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Bingo UV @ 2018-09-20 12:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman, Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, 32722, kaushal.modi Hi RMS, Nicolas The concrete software MobileOrg on Android is somewhat of an orphan. It may not revive as itself. But there is also a protocol mobileorg, which the manual alludes to, though does not document directly. That protocol is very much an enabler of software freedom, and it is important for the next MobileOrg to be written. I hope it survives these questions. The protocol can be used to sync 2 sets of org-mode files between 2 emacs instances - without needing the iOS or Android versions of MobileOrg. When fancypants sync systems like dropbox, git, syncthing, rsync etc. are not available, the mobileorg protocol can be used to transfer changes from one place to another. As for the questions : On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:50:26 -0400 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: > > What is the source license of Mobile.org? GPLv3 (https://github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/blob/master/LICENSE.txt) > Is it listed in f-droid.org? It used to be, it has been kicked out of f-droid due to violating policies : including dubious jars. Dropbox API that it was using was surely non-free. > > [fn:146] An alternative is to use a WebDAV server. MobileOrg > > documentation has details of WebDAV server configuration. > > Additional help is at this > > [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav][FAQ > > entry]]. > > Is this a way to use MobileOrg without Dropbox? > > Is the WebDAV server code free software? Can you talk to such a > server without any nonfree client software? There are 2 other ways to use Android MobileOrg not included in the worg page: 1. SSH 2. Local filesystem Also, since one can write one's own WebDAV server using specs, it doesn't matter if some particular WebDAV servers are free or not. thanks ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-20 12:59 ` bug#32722: [O] " Bingo UV @ 2018-09-20 12:59 ` Bingo UV 2018-09-21 2:13 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Bingo UV @ 2018-09-20 12:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman, Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, emacs-orgmode, 32722, kaushal.modi Hi RMS, Nicolas The concrete software MobileOrg on Android is somewhat of an orphan. It may not revive as itself. But there is also a protocol mobileorg, which the manual alludes to, though does not document directly. That protocol is very much an enabler of software freedom, and it is important for the next MobileOrg to be written. I hope it survives these questions. The protocol can be used to sync 2 sets of org-mode files between 2 emacs instances - without needing the iOS or Android versions of MobileOrg. When fancypants sync systems like dropbox, git, syncthing, rsync etc. are not available, the mobileorg protocol can be used to transfer changes from one place to another. As for the questions : On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:50:26 -0400 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: > > What is the source license of Mobile.org? GPLv3 (https://github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/blob/master/LICENSE.txt) > Is it listed in f-droid.org? It used to be, it has been kicked out of f-droid due to violating policies : including dubious jars. Dropbox API that it was using was surely non-free. > > [fn:146] An alternative is to use a WebDAV server. MobileOrg > > documentation has details of WebDAV server configuration. > > Additional help is at this > > [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav][FAQ > > entry]]. > > Is this a way to use MobileOrg without Dropbox? > > Is the WebDAV server code free software? Can you talk to such a > server without any nonfree client software? There are 2 other ways to use Android MobileOrg not included in the worg page: 1. SSH 2. Local filesystem Also, since one can write one's own WebDAV server using specs, it doesn't matter if some particular WebDAV servers are free or not. thanks ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 12:59 ` Bingo UV @ 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bingo UV; +Cc: n, 32722, mail, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I asked > > Is the WebDAV server code free software? Can you talk to such a > > server without any nonfree client software? Fortunately, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>'s information shows that using WebDAV is no problem. > There are 2 other ways to use Android MobileOrg not included in the > worg page: > 1. SSH > 2. Local filesystem It sounds like modifying Android MobileOrg so it used only those methods plus WebDAV, and not Dropbox, could result in a free program that could be in f-droid. It would be useful for someone to do that and publish it under a different name. Once that gets done, it would be good to make Emacs encourage people to use _that version_ of Android MobileOrg. Until then, Emacs (including Org-mode) should not say or do anything that would be likely to lead users to use the existing MobileOrg. We should remove that text soon, and put in new text about the new version when that new version is available. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-20 12:59 ` Bingo UV 2018-09-21 2:13 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 19:21 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Leslie Watter 2018-09-21 19:21 ` bug#32722: [O] " Leslie Watter 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bingo UV; +Cc: n, emacs-orgmode, 32722, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I asked > > Is the WebDAV server code free software? Can you talk to such a > > server without any nonfree client software? Fortunately, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>'s information shows that using WebDAV is no problem. > There are 2 other ways to use Android MobileOrg not included in the > worg page: > 1. SSH > 2. Local filesystem It sounds like modifying Android MobileOrg so it used only those methods plus WebDAV, and not Dropbox, could result in a free program that could be in f-droid. It would be useful for someone to do that and publish it under a different name. Once that gets done, it would be good to make Emacs encourage people to use _that version_ of Android MobileOrg. Until then, Emacs (including Org-mode) should not say or do anything that would be likely to lead users to use the existing MobileOrg. We should remove that text soon, and put in new text about the new version when that new version is available. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-21 19:21 ` Leslie Watter 2018-09-21 19:21 ` bug#32722: [O] " Leslie Watter 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Leslie Watter @ 2018-09-21 19:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, 32722, right.ho, kaushal.modi [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2276 bytes --] Hello all, Just a little information: since Dropbox update their API to 2.0 MobileOrg with this backend stopped to work, so anyone willing to use it will have to use either WebDAV, SSH or Local filesystem. AFAIK, there's no active development of MobileOrg in terms of having this issue [0] solved. Updating the software could help more than just forking it and publishing it with another name. There's some options (Orgzly, Syncthing) that can be used but none of them are as usefull as MobileOrg. So, if anyone could contact Matthew Jones (https://github.com/matburt) and offer some help I think that could be a better approach than just forking it. Unfortunately I cannot help at this point. Cheers, LEslie [0] - https://github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/issues/501 On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 11:17 PM Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I asked > > > > Is the WebDAV server code free software? Can you talk to such a > > > server without any nonfree client software? > > Fortunately, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>'s information > shows that using WebDAV is no problem. > > > There are 2 other ways to use Android MobileOrg not included in the > > worg page: > > 1. SSH > > 2. Local filesystem > > It sounds like modifying Android MobileOrg so it used only those > methods plus WebDAV, and not Dropbox, could result in a free program > that could be in f-droid. It would be useful for someone to do that > and publish it under a different name. > > Once that gets done, it would be good to make Emacs encourage people to > use _that version_ of Android MobileOrg. > > Until then, Emacs (including Org-mode) should not say or do anything > that would be likely to lead users to use the existing MobileOrg. > We should remove that text soon, and put in new text about the new > version when that new version is available. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) > > > > > > -- Leslie H. Watter [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3497 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 19:21 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Leslie Watter @ 2018-09-21 19:21 ` Leslie Watter 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Leslie Watter @ 2018-09-21 19:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: n, 32722, right.ho, kaushal.modi [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2276 bytes --] Hello all, Just a little information: since Dropbox update their API to 2.0 MobileOrg with this backend stopped to work, so anyone willing to use it will have to use either WebDAV, SSH or Local filesystem. AFAIK, there's no active development of MobileOrg in terms of having this issue [0] solved. Updating the software could help more than just forking it and publishing it with another name. There's some options (Orgzly, Syncthing) that can be used but none of them are as usefull as MobileOrg. So, if anyone could contact Matthew Jones (https://github.com/matburt) and offer some help I think that could be a better approach than just forking it. Unfortunately I cannot help at this point. Cheers, LEslie [0] - https://github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/issues/501 On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 11:17 PM Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I asked > > > > Is the WebDAV server code free software? Can you talk to such a > > > server without any nonfree client software? > > Fortunately, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>'s information > shows that using WebDAV is no problem. > > > There are 2 other ways to use Android MobileOrg not included in the > > worg page: > > 1. SSH > > 2. Local filesystem > > It sounds like modifying Android MobileOrg so it used only those > methods plus WebDAV, and not Dropbox, could result in a free program > that could be in f-droid. It would be useful for someone to do that > and publish it under a different name. > > Once that gets done, it would be good to make Emacs encourage people to > use _that version_ of Android MobileOrg. > > Until then, Emacs (including Org-mode) should not say or do anything > that would be likely to lead users to use the existing MobileOrg. > We should remove that text soon, and put in new text about the new > version when that new version is available. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) > > > > > > -- Leslie H. Watter [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3497 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 19:21 ` bug#32722: [O] " Leslie Watter @ 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-29 14:53 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 14:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-23 1:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: leslie; +Cc: n, 32722, right.ho, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Just a little information: since Dropbox update their API to 2.0 > MobileOrg with this backend stopped to work, so anyone willing to use it > will have > to use either WebDAV, SSH or Local filesystem. AFAIK, there's no active > development of MobileOrg > in terms of having this issue [0] solved. This is actually good news. It means Android MobileOrg is almost ok. If someone wants to do a little work on Android MobileOrg, so it could go into f-droid, we could recommend its use. But the doc should be updated. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-29 14:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 14:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-29 14:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: 32722, n, right.ho, kaushal.modi Hello, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > This is actually good news. It means Android MobileOrg is almost ok. > If someone wants to do a little work on Android MobileOrg, so it could > go into f-droid, we could recommend its use. But the doc should be > updated. For the record, I rewrote the section about Org Mobile in the manual. This removed all instances of "MobileOrg" and "Dropbox". Here it is in its full glory (please ignore the broken links, which refer to other parts in the Org manual): --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ORG MOBILE Release 9.2 The Org Mode Developers ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ Table of Contents ───────────────── 1. Setting up the staging area 2. Pushing to the mobile application 3. Pulling from the mobile application Org Mobile is a protocol for synchronizing Org files between Emacs and other applications, e.g., on mobile devices. It enables offline-views and capture support for an Org mode system that is rooted on a “real” computer. The external application can also record changes to existing entries. This appendix describes Org’s support for agenda view formats compatible with Org Mobile. It also describes synchronizing changes, such as to notes, between the mobile application and the computer. To change tags and TODO states in the mobile application, first customize the variables `org-todo-keywords' and `org-tag-alist'. These should cover all the important tags and TODO keywords, even if Org files use only some of them. Though the mobile application is expected to support in-buffer settings, it is required to understand TODO states /sets/ (see [BROKEN LINK: *Setting up keywords for individual files]) and /mutually exclusive/ tags (see [BROKEN LINK: *Setting Tags]) only for those set in these variables. 1 Setting up the staging area ═════════════════════════════ The mobile application needs access to a file directory on a server[1] to interact with Emacs. Pass its location through the `org-mobile-directory' variable. If you can mount that directory locally just set the variable to point to that directory: ┌──── │ (setq org-mobile-directory "~/orgmobile/") └──── Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible through, for example, SSH and SCP: ┌──── │ (setq org-mobile-directory "/scpc:user@remote.host:org/webdav/") └──── With a public server, consider encrypting the files. Org also requires OpenSSL installed on the local computer. To turn on encryption, set the same password in the mobile application and in Emacs. Set the password in the variable `org-mobile-use-encryption'[2]. Note that even after the mobile application encrypts the file contents, the file name remains visible on the file systems of the local computer, the server, and the mobile device. [TRAMP User Manual] <info:tramp> 2 Pushing to the mobile application ═══════════════════════════════════ The command `org-mobile-push' copies files listed in `org-mobile-files' into the staging area. Files include agenda files (as listed in `org-agenda-files'). Customize `org-mobile-files' to add other files. File names are staged with paths relative to `org-directory', so all files should be inside this directory[3]. Push creates a special Org file `agendas.org' with custom agenda views defined by the user[4]. Finally, Org writes the file `index.org', containing links to other files. The mobile application reads this file first from the server to determine what other files to download for agendas. For faster downloads, it is expected to only read files whose checksums[5] have changed. 3 Pulling from the mobile application ═════════════════════════════════════ The command `org-mobile-pull' synchronizes changes with the server. More specifically, it first pulls the Org files for viewing. It then appends captured entries and pointers to flagged or changed entries to the file `mobileorg.org' on the server. Org ultimately integrates its data in an inbox file format, through the following steps: 1. Org moves all entries found in `mobileorg.org'[6] and appends them to the file pointed to by the variable `org-mobile-inbox-for-pull'. It should reside neither in the staging area nor on the server. Each captured entry and each editing event is a top-level entry in the inbox file. 2. After moving the entries, Org processes changes to the shared files. Some of them are applied directly and without user interaction. Examples include changes to tags, TODO state, headline and body text. Entries requiring further action are tagged as `FLAGGED'. Org marks entries with problems with an error message in the inbox. They have to be resolved manually. 3. Org generates an agenda view for flagged entries for user intervention to clean up. For notes stored in flagged entries, Org displays them in the echo area when point is on the corresponding agenda item. ? Pressing ? displays the entire flagged note in another window. Org also pushes it to the kill ring. To store flagged note as a normal note, use ? z C-y C-c C-c. Pressing ? twice does these things: first it removes the `FLAGGED' tag; second, it removes the flagged note from the property drawer; third, it signals that manual editing of the flagged entry is now finished. From the agenda dispatcher, ? returns to the view to finish processing flagged entries. Note that these entries may not be the most recent since the mobile application searches files that were last pulled. To get an updated agenda view with changes since the last pull, pull again. Footnotes ───────── [1] For a server to host files, consider using a WebDAV server, such as [Nextcloud] (<https://nextcloud.com>). Additional help is at this [FAQ entry] (<https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav>). [2] If Emacs is configured for safe storing of passwords, then configure the variable `org-mobile-encryption-password'; please read the docstring of that variable. [3] Symbolic links in `org-directory' need to have the same name as their targets. [4] While creating the agendas, Org mode forces ID properties on all referenced entries, so that these entries can be uniquely identified if Org Mobile flags them for further action. To avoid setting properties configure the variable `org-mobile-force-id-on-agenda-items' to `nil'. Org mode then relies on outline paths, assuming they are unique. [5] Checksums are stored automatically in the file `checksums.dat'. [6] The file will be empty after this operation. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- I also used CTAN URL for the minted LaTeX package. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-29 14:53 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-29 14:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (3 more replies) 1 sibling, 4 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-29 14:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: 32722, n, leslie, right.ho, kaushal.modi Hello, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > This is actually good news. It means Android MobileOrg is almost ok. > If someone wants to do a little work on Android MobileOrg, so it could > go into f-droid, we could recommend its use. But the doc should be > updated. For the record, I rewrote the section about Org Mobile in the manual. This removed all instances of "MobileOrg" and "Dropbox". Here it is in its full glory (please ignore the broken links, which refer to other parts in the Org manual): --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ORG MOBILE Release 9.2 The Org Mode Developers ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ Table of Contents ───────────────── 1. Setting up the staging area 2. Pushing to the mobile application 3. Pulling from the mobile application Org Mobile is a protocol for synchronizing Org files between Emacs and other applications, e.g., on mobile devices. It enables offline-views and capture support for an Org mode system that is rooted on a “real” computer. The external application can also record changes to existing entries. This appendix describes Org’s support for agenda view formats compatible with Org Mobile. It also describes synchronizing changes, such as to notes, between the mobile application and the computer. To change tags and TODO states in the mobile application, first customize the variables `org-todo-keywords' and `org-tag-alist'. These should cover all the important tags and TODO keywords, even if Org files use only some of them. Though the mobile application is expected to support in-buffer settings, it is required to understand TODO states /sets/ (see [BROKEN LINK: *Setting up keywords for individual files]) and /mutually exclusive/ tags (see [BROKEN LINK: *Setting Tags]) only for those set in these variables. 1 Setting up the staging area ═════════════════════════════ The mobile application needs access to a file directory on a server[1] to interact with Emacs. Pass its location through the `org-mobile-directory' variable. If you can mount that directory locally just set the variable to point to that directory: ┌──── │ (setq org-mobile-directory "~/orgmobile/") └──── Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible through, for example, SSH and SCP: ┌──── │ (setq org-mobile-directory "/scpc:user@remote.host:org/webdav/") └──── With a public server, consider encrypting the files. Org also requires OpenSSL installed on the local computer. To turn on encryption, set the same password in the mobile application and in Emacs. Set the password in the variable `org-mobile-use-encryption'[2]. Note that even after the mobile application encrypts the file contents, the file name remains visible on the file systems of the local computer, the server, and the mobile device. [TRAMP User Manual] <info:tramp> 2 Pushing to the mobile application ═══════════════════════════════════ The command `org-mobile-push' copies files listed in `org-mobile-files' into the staging area. Files include agenda files (as listed in `org-agenda-files'). Customize `org-mobile-files' to add other files. File names are staged with paths relative to `org-directory', so all files should be inside this directory[3]. Push creates a special Org file `agendas.org' with custom agenda views defined by the user[4]. Finally, Org writes the file `index.org', containing links to other files. The mobile application reads this file first from the server to determine what other files to download for agendas. For faster downloads, it is expected to only read files whose checksums[5] have changed. 3 Pulling from the mobile application ═════════════════════════════════════ The command `org-mobile-pull' synchronizes changes with the server. More specifically, it first pulls the Org files for viewing. It then appends captured entries and pointers to flagged or changed entries to the file `mobileorg.org' on the server. Org ultimately integrates its data in an inbox file format, through the following steps: 1. Org moves all entries found in `mobileorg.org'[6] and appends them to the file pointed to by the variable `org-mobile-inbox-for-pull'. It should reside neither in the staging area nor on the server. Each captured entry and each editing event is a top-level entry in the inbox file. 2. After moving the entries, Org processes changes to the shared files. Some of them are applied directly and without user interaction. Examples include changes to tags, TODO state, headline and body text. Entries requiring further action are tagged as `FLAGGED'. Org marks entries with problems with an error message in the inbox. They have to be resolved manually. 3. Org generates an agenda view for flagged entries for user intervention to clean up. For notes stored in flagged entries, Org displays them in the echo area when point is on the corresponding agenda item. ? Pressing ? displays the entire flagged note in another window. Org also pushes it to the kill ring. To store flagged note as a normal note, use ? z C-y C-c C-c. Pressing ? twice does these things: first it removes the `FLAGGED' tag; second, it removes the flagged note from the property drawer; third, it signals that manual editing of the flagged entry is now finished. From the agenda dispatcher, ? returns to the view to finish processing flagged entries. Note that these entries may not be the most recent since the mobile application searches files that were last pulled. To get an updated agenda view with changes since the last pull, pull again. Footnotes ───────── [1] For a server to host files, consider using a WebDAV server, such as [Nextcloud] (<https://nextcloud.com>). Additional help is at this [FAQ entry] (<https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav>). [2] If Emacs is configured for safe storing of passwords, then configure the variable `org-mobile-encryption-password'; please read the docstring of that variable. [3] Symbolic links in `org-directory' need to have the same name as their targets. [4] While creating the agendas, Org mode forces ID properties on all referenced entries, so that these entries can be uniquely identified if Org Mobile flags them for further action. To avoid setting properties configure the variable `org-mobile-force-id-on-agenda-items' to `nil'. Org mode then relies on outline paths, assuming they are unique. [5] Checksums are stored automatically in the file `checksums.dat'. [6] The file will be empty after this operation. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- I also used CTAN URL for the minted LaTeX package. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 14:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-29 15:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, rms, right.ho, 32722, kaushal.modi > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:53:04 +0200 > Cc: 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, leslie@watter.net, right.ho@gmail.com, > kaushal.modi@gmail.com > > > This is actually good news. It means Android MobileOrg is almost ok. > > If someone wants to do a little work on Android MobileOrg, so it could > > go into f-droid, we could recommend its use. But the doc should be > > updated. > > For the record, I rewrote the section about Org Mobile in the manual. > This removed all instances of "MobileOrg" and "Dropbox". Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, please? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 14:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus 3 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-29 15:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, rms, right.ho, 32722, kaushal.modi, leslie > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:53:04 +0200 > Cc: 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, leslie@watter.net, right.ho@gmail.com, > kaushal.modi@gmail.com > > > This is actually good news. It means Android MobileOrg is almost ok. > > If someone wants to do a little work on Android MobileOrg, so it could > > go into f-droid, we could recommend its use. But the doc should be > > updated. > > For the record, I rewrote the section about Org Mobile in the manual. > This removed all instances of "MobileOrg" and "Dropbox". Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, please? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-29 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rms, right.ho, Rasmus, kaushal.modi, 32722 Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, > please? I don't have access to the Emacs repository. You can either give me write access there, or I can send you the Texinfo @node contents, or someone with write access could do it for us. I'm Cc'ing Rasmus for the last option. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 23:35 ` bug#32722: " Kyle Meyer 2018-09-29 23:35 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kyle Meyer 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-29 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, rms, right.ho, leslie, rasmus, kaushal.modi, 32722 > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, leslie@watter.net, right.ho@gmail.com, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:33:35 +0200 > > > Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, > > please? > > I don't have access to the Emacs repository. > > You can either give me write access there, or I can send you the Texinfo > @node contents, or someone with write access could do it for us. I'm > Cc'ing Rasmus for the last option. I could install a patch that you produced from the Org repository's appropriate branch. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-29 23:35 ` Kyle Meyer 2018-09-30 11:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-30 11:43 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 23:35 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kyle Meyer 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kyle Meyer @ 2018-09-29 23:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii, Nicolas Goaziou Cc: n, rms, right.ho, 32722, rasmus, kaushal.modi Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, leslie@watter.net, right.ho@gmail.com, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> >> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:33:35 +0200 >> >> > Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, >> > please? >> >> I don't have access to the Emacs repository. >> >> You can either give me write access there, or I can send you the Texinfo >> @node contents, or someone with write access could do it for us. I'm >> Cc'ing Rasmus for the last option. > > I could install a patch that you produced from the Org repository's > appropriate branch. > > Thanks. I've tried to combine these org-manual.org changes into a patch for org.texi. This patch should apply on the emacs-26 branch. -- >8 -- Subject: [PATCH] org.texi: Rewrite Org Mobile section * doc/misc/org.texi (Org Mobile): Rewrite from "MobileOrg" section. Remove all references to non-free software. Move into "Miscellaneous". This reflects Nicolas Goaziou's changes from Org's b929e5d77, 46b49ab57, and 3f826b9f7. --- doc/misc/org.texi | 293 ++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------------- 1 file changed, 152 insertions(+), 141 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/misc/org.texi b/doc/misc/org.texi index 60647e65e8..873ce4d2cd 100644 --- a/doc/misc/org.texi +++ b/doc/misc/org.texi @@ -325,7 +325,6 @@ Top * Working with source code:: Export, evaluate, and tangle code blocks * Miscellaneous:: All the rest which did not fit elsewhere * Hacking:: How to hack your way around -* MobileOrg:: Viewing and capture on a mobile device * History and acknowledgments:: How Org came into being * GNU Free Documentation License:: The license for this documentation. * Main Index:: An index of Org's concepts and features @@ -760,12 +759,19 @@ Top * TTY keys:: Using Org on a tty * Interaction:: With other Emacs packages * org-crypt:: Encrypting Org files +* Org Mobile:: Viewing and capture on a mobile device Interaction with other packages * Cooperation:: Packages Org cooperates with * Conflicts:: Packages that lead to conflicts +Org Mobile + +* Setting up the staging area:: For the mobile device +* Pushing to the mobile application:: Uploading Org files and agendas +* Pulling from the mobile application:: Integrating captured and flagged items + Hacking * Hooks:: How to reach into Org's internals @@ -788,12 +794,6 @@ Top * Translator functions:: Copy and modify * Radio lists:: Sending and receiving lists -MobileOrg - -* Setting up the staging area:: For the mobile device -* Pushing to MobileOrg:: Uploading Org files and agendas -* Pulling from MobileOrg:: Integrating captured and flagged items - @end detailmenu @end menu @@ -17253,6 +17253,7 @@ Miscellaneous * TTY keys:: Using Org on a tty * Interaction:: With other Emacs packages * org-crypt:: Encrypting Org files +* Org Mobile:: Viewing and capture on a mobile device @end menu @@ -18187,6 +18188,150 @@ org-crypt Excluding the crypt tag from inheritance prevents encrypting previously encrypted text. +@node Org Mobile +@section Org Mobile + +@cindex smartphone + +Org Mobile is a protocol for synchronizing Org files between Emacs and +other applications, e.g., on mobile devices. It enables offline-views +and capture support for an Org mode system that is rooted on a ``real'' +computer. The external application can also record changes to +existing entries. + +This appendix describes Org's support for agenda view formats +compatible with Org Mobile. It also describes synchronizing changes, +such as to notes, between the mobile application and the computer. + +To change tags and TODO states in the mobile application, first +customize the variables @code{org-todo-keywords} and @code{org-tag-alist}. +These should cover all the important tags and TODO keywords, even if +Org files use only some of them. Though the mobile application is +expected to support in-buffer settings, it is required to understand +TODO states @emph{sets} (see @ref{Per-file keywords}) and +@emph{mutually exclusive} tags (see @ref{Setting tags}) only for those set in +these variables. + +@menu +* Setting up the staging area:: For the mobile device +* Pushing to the mobile application:: Uploading Org files and agendas +* Pulling from the mobile application:: Integrating captured and flagged items +@end menu + +@node Setting up the staging area +@subsection Setting up the staging area + +@vindex org-mobile-directory +The mobile application needs access to a file directory on +a server@footnote{For a server to host files, consider using a WebDAV server, +such as @uref{https://nextcloud.com, Nextcloud}. Additional help is at this @uref{https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav, FAQ entry}.} to interact with Emacs. Pass its location through +the @code{org-mobile-directory} variable. If you can mount that directory +locally just set the variable to point to that directory: + +@lisp +(setq org-mobile-directory "~/orgmobile/") +@end lisp + +@noindent +Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see @ref{Top,TRAMP User Manual,,tramp,}), +@code{org-mobile-directory} may point to a remote directory accessible +through, for example, SSH and SCP: + +@lisp +(setq org-mobile-directory "/scpc:user@@remote.host:org/webdav/") +@end lisp + +@vindex org-mobile-encryption +With a public server, consider encrypting the files. Org also +requires OpenSSL installed on the local computer. To turn on +encryption, set the same password in the mobile application and in +Emacs. Set the password in the variable +@code{org-mobile-use-encryption}@footnote{If Emacs is configured for safe storing of passwords, then +configure the variable @code{org-mobile-encryption-password}; please read +the docstring of that variable.}. Note that even after the mobile +application encrypts the file contents, the file name remains visible +on the file systems of the local computer, the server, and the mobile +device. + +@node Pushing to the mobile application +@subsection Pushing to the mobile application + +@findex org-mobile-push +@vindex org-mobile-files +The command @code{org-mobile-push} copies files listed in +@code{org-mobile-files} into the staging area. Files include agenda files +(as listed in @code{org-agenda-files}). Customize @code{org-mobile-files} to +add other files. File names are staged with paths relative to +@code{org-directory}, so all files should be inside this directory@footnote{Symbolic links in @code{org-directory} need to have the same name +as their targets.}. + +Push creates a special Org file @samp{agendas.org} with custom agenda views +defined by the user@footnote{While creating the agendas, Org mode forces ID properties on +all referenced entries, so that these entries can be uniquely +identified if Org Mobile flags them for further action. To avoid +setting properties configure the variable +@code{org-mobile-force-id-on-agenda-items} to @code{nil}. Org mode then relies +on outline paths, assuming they are unique.}. + +Finally, Org writes the file @samp{index.org}, containing links to other +files. The mobile application reads this file first from the server +to determine what other files to download for agendas. For faster +downloads, it is expected to only read files whose checksums@footnote{Checksums are stored automatically in the file +@samp{checksums.dat}.} +have changed. + +@node Pulling from the mobile application +@subsection Pulling from the mobile application + +@findex org-mobile-pull +The command @code{org-mobile-pull} synchronizes changes with the server. +More specifically, it first pulls the Org files for viewing. It then +appends captured entries and pointers to flagged or changed entries to +the file @samp{mobileorg.org} on the server. Org ultimately integrates its +data in an inbox file format, through the following steps: + +@enumerate +@item +@vindex org-mobile-inbox-for-pull +Org moves all entries found in @samp{mobileorg.org}@footnote{The file will be empty after this operation.} and appends +them to the file pointed to by the variable +@code{org-mobile-inbox-for-pull}. It should reside neither in the +staging area nor on the server. Each captured entry and each +editing event is a top-level entry in the inbox file. + +@item +@cindex @samp{FLAGGED}, tag +After moving the entries, Org processes changes to the shared +files. Some of them are applied directly and without user +interaction. Examples include changes to tags, TODO state, +headline and body text. Entries requiring further action are +tagged as @samp{FLAGGED}. Org marks entries with problems with an error +message in the inbox. They have to be resolved manually. + +@item +Org generates an agenda view for flagged entries for user +intervention to clean up. For notes stored in flagged entries, Org +displays them in the echo area when point is on the corresponding +agenda item. + +@table @asis +@item @kbd{?} +Pressing @kbd{?} displays the entire flagged note in +another window. Org also pushes it to the kill ring. To +store flagged note as a normal note, use @kbd{? z C-y C-c C-c}. Pressing @kbd{?} twice does these things: first +it removes the @samp{FLAGGED} tag; second, it removes the flagged +note from the property drawer; third, it signals that manual +editing of the flagged entry is now finished. +@end table +@end enumerate + +@kindex ? @r{(Agenda dispatcher)} +From the agenda dispatcher, @kbd{?} returns to the view to finish +processing flagged entries. Note that these entries may not be the +most recent since the mobile application searches files that were last +pulled. To get an updated agenda view with changes since the last +pull, pull again. + @node Hacking @appendix Hacking @cindex hacking @@ -19151,140 +19296,6 @@ Using the mapping API (length (org-map-entries t "/+WAITING" 'agenda)) @end lisp -@node MobileOrg -@appendix MobileOrg -@cindex iPhone -@cindex MobileOrg - -MobileOrg is a companion mobile app that runs on iOS and Android devices. -MobileOrg enables offline-views and capture support for an Org mode system -that is rooted on a ``real'' computer. MobileOrg can record changes to -existing entries. - -The @uref{https://github.com/MobileOrg/, iOS implementation} for the -@emph{iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad} series of devices, was started by Richard -Moreland and is now in the hands Sean Escriva. Android users should check -out @uref{http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/, MobileOrg -Android} by Matt Jones. Though the two implementations are not identical, -they offer similar features. - -This appendix describes Org's support for agenda view formats compatible with -MobileOrg. It also describes synchronizing changes, such as to notes, -between MobileOrg and the computer. - -To change tags and TODO states in MobileOrg, first customize the variables -@code{org-todo-keywords} and @code{org-tag-alist}. These should cover all -the important tags and TODO keywords, even if Org files use only some of -them. Though MobileOrg has in-buffer settings, it understands TODO states -@emph{sets} (@pxref{Per-file keywords}) and @emph{mutually exclusive} tags -(@pxref{Setting tags}) only for those set in these variables. - -@menu -* Setting up the staging area:: For the mobile device -* Pushing to MobileOrg:: Uploading Org files and agendas -* Pulling from MobileOrg:: Integrating captured and flagged items -@end menu - -@node Setting up the staging area -@section Setting up the staging area - -MobileOrg needs access to a file directory on a server to interact with -Emacs. With a public server, consider encrypting the files. MobileOrg -version 1.5 supports encryption for the iPhone. Org also requires -@file{openssl} installed on the local computer. To turn on encryption, set -the same password in MobileOrg and in Emacs. Set the password in the -variable @code{org-mobile-use-encryption}@footnote{If Emacs is configured for -safe storing of passwords, then configure the variable, -@code{org-mobile-encryption-password}; please read the docstring of that -variable.}. Note that even after MobileOrg encrypts the file contents, the -file names will remain visible on the file systems of the local computer, the -server, and the mobile device. - -For a server to host files, consider options like -@uref{http://dropbox.com,Dropbox.com} account@footnote{An alternative is to -use webdav server. MobileOrg documentation has details of webdav server -configuration. Additional help is at -@uref{https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav, FAQ entry}.}. -On first connection, MobileOrg creates a directory @file{MobileOrg/} on -Dropbox. Pass its location to Emacs through an init file variable as -follows: - -@lisp -(setq org-mobile-directory "~/Dropbox/MobileOrg") -@end lisp - -Org copies files to the above directory for MobileOrg. Org also uses the -same directory for sharing notes between Org and MobileOrg. - -@node Pushing to MobileOrg -@section Pushing to MobileOrg - -Org pushes files listed in @code{org-mobile-files} to -@code{org-mobile-directory}. Files include agenda files (as listed in -@code{org-agenda-files}). Customize @code{org-mobile-files} to add other -files. File names will be staged with paths relative to -@code{org-directory}, so all files should be inside this -directory@footnote{Symbolic links in @code{org-directory} should have the -same name as their targets.}. - -Push creates a special Org file @file{agendas.org} with custom agenda views -defined by the user@footnote{While creating the agendas, Org mode will force -ID properties on all referenced entries, so that these entries can be -uniquely identified if MobileOrg flags them for further action. To avoid -setting properties configure the variable -@code{org-mobile-force-id-on-agenda-items} to @code{nil}. Org mode will then -rely on outline paths, assuming they are unique.}. - -Org writes the file @file{index.org}, containing links to other files. -MobileOrg reads this file first from the server to determine what other files -to download for agendas. For faster downloads, MobileOrg will read only -those files whose checksums@footnote{Checksums are stored automatically in -the file @file{checksums.dat}.} have changed. - -@node Pulling from MobileOrg -@section Pulling from MobileOrg - -When MobileOrg synchronizes with the server, it pulls the Org files for -viewing. It then appends to the file @file{mobileorg.org} on the server the -captured entries, pointers to flagged and changed entries. Org integrates -its data in an inbox file format. - -@enumerate -@item -Org moves all entries found in -@file{mobileorg.org}@footnote{@file{mobileorg.org} will be empty after this -operation.} and appends them to the file pointed to by the variable -@code{org-mobile-inbox-for-pull}. Each captured entry and each editing event -is a top-level entry in the inbox file. -@item -After moving the entries, Org attempts changes to MobileOrg. Some changes -are applied directly and without user interaction. Examples include changes -to tags, TODO state, headline and body text. Entries for further action are -tagged as @code{:FLAGGED:}. Org marks entries with problems with an error -message in the inbox. They have to be resolved manually. -@item -Org generates an agenda view for flagged entries for user intervention to -clean up. For notes stored in flagged entries, MobileOrg displays them in -the echo area when the cursor is on the corresponding agenda item. - -@table @kbd -@kindex ? -@item ? -Pressing @kbd{?} displays the entire flagged note in another window. Org -also pushes it to the kill ring. To store flagged note as a normal note, use -@kbd{? z C-y C-c C-c}. Pressing @kbd{?} twice does these things: first it -removes the @code{:FLAGGED:} tag; second, it removes the flagged note from -the property drawer; third, it signals that manual editing of the flagged -entry is now finished. -@end table -@end enumerate - -@kindex C-c a ? -@kbd{C-c a ?} returns to the agenda view to finish processing flagged -entries. Note that these entries may not be the most recent since MobileOrg -searches files that were last pulled. To get an updated agenda view with -changes since the last pull, pull again. - @node History and acknowledgments @appendix History and acknowledgments @cindex acknowledgments -- 2.19.0 ^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 23:35 ` bug#32722: " Kyle Meyer @ 2018-09-30 11:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2020-05-24 8:03 ` Bastien 2018-09-30 11:43 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-30 11:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kyle Meyer; +Cc: n, mail, right.ho, 32722, rasmus, kaushal.modi, rms > From: Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> > Cc: n@flqt.fr, rms@gnu.org, right.ho@gmail.com, rasmus@gmx.us, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:35:25 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > > >> From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, leslie@watter.net, right.ho@gmail.com, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> > >> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:33:35 +0200 > >> > >> > Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, > >> > please? > >> > >> I don't have access to the Emacs repository. > >> > >> You can either give me write access there, or I can send you the Texinfo > >> @node contents, or someone with write access could do it for us. I'm > >> Cc'ing Rasmus for the last option. > > > > I could install a patch that you produced from the Org repository's > > appropriate branch. > > > > Thanks. > > I've tried to combine these org-manual.org changes into a patch for > org.texi. This patch should apply on the emacs-26 branch. Thanks, pushed. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-30 11:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-05-24 8:03 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2020-05-24 8:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: n, mail, right.ho, rasmus, kaushal.modi, Kyle Meyer, 32722-done, rms AFAICT the issues raised in this thread have been solved, so I am closing this bug report now. Org-mode does not encourage users to use GitHub for hosting their source code, nor does it encourage them to use non-free javascript by browsing GitHub's page. Some files in Org still contain references to links starting with http://github.com but users can use M-x eww on these links and still get the correct instructions on how to clone the Git repository. The htmlize/htmlfontify discussion can continue in this report: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=7506 If anyone think there are things we can still fix in this area, please reopen this bug report with suggestions on what to fix and how to fix it. Thanks! -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? @ 2020-05-24 8:03 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2020-05-24 8:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, mail, right.ho, rasmus, kaushal.modi, 32722-done, rms AFAICT the issues raised in this thread have been solved, so I am closing this bug report now. Org-mode does not encourage users to use GitHub for hosting their source code, nor does it encourage them to use non-free javascript by browsing GitHub's page. Some files in Org still contain references to links starting with http://github.com but users can use M-x eww on these links and still get the correct instructions on how to clone the Git repository. The htmlize/htmlfontify discussion can continue in this report: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=7506 If anyone think there are things we can still fix in this area, please reopen this bug report with suggestions on what to fix and how to fix it. Thanks! -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 23:35 ` bug#32722: " Kyle Meyer 2018-09-30 11:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-30 11:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-30 11:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kyle Meyer; +Cc: n, mail, right.ho, 32722, rasmus, kaushal.modi, rms > From: Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> > Cc: n@flqt.fr, rms@gnu.org, right.ho@gmail.com, rasmus@gmx.us, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:35:25 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > > >> From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, leslie@watter.net, right.ho@gmail.com, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> > >> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:33:35 +0200 > >> > >> > Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, > >> > please? > >> > >> I don't have access to the Emacs repository. > >> > >> You can either give me write access there, or I can send you the Texinfo > >> @node contents, or someone with write access could do it for us. I'm > >> Cc'ing Rasmus for the last option. > > > > I could install a patch that you produced from the Org repository's > > appropriate branch. > > > > Thanks. > > I've tried to combine these org-manual.org changes into a patch for > org.texi. This patch should apply on the emacs-26 branch. Thanks, pushed. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 23:35 ` bug#32722: " Kyle Meyer @ 2018-09-29 23:35 ` Kyle Meyer 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kyle Meyer @ 2018-09-29 23:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii, Nicolas Goaziou Cc: n, rms, right.ho, 32722, rasmus, kaushal.modi Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, leslie@watter.net, right.ho@gmail.com, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> >> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:33:35 +0200 >> >> > Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, >> > please? >> >> I don't have access to the Emacs repository. >> >> You can either give me write access there, or I can send you the Texinfo >> @node contents, or someone with write access could do it for us. I'm >> Cc'ing Rasmus for the last option. > > I could install a patch that you produced from the Org repository's > appropriate branch. > > Thanks. I've tried to combine these org-manual.org changes into a patch for org.texi. This patch should apply on the emacs-26 branch. -- >8 -- Subject: [PATCH] org.texi: Rewrite Org Mobile section * doc/misc/org.texi (Org Mobile): Rewrite from "MobileOrg" section. Remove all references to non-free software. Move into "Miscellaneous". This reflects Nicolas Goaziou's changes from Org's b929e5d77, 46b49ab57, and 3f826b9f7. --- doc/misc/org.texi | 293 ++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------------- 1 file changed, 152 insertions(+), 141 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/misc/org.texi b/doc/misc/org.texi index 60647e65e8..873ce4d2cd 100644 --- a/doc/misc/org.texi +++ b/doc/misc/org.texi @@ -325,7 +325,6 @@ Top * Working with source code:: Export, evaluate, and tangle code blocks * Miscellaneous:: All the rest which did not fit elsewhere * Hacking:: How to hack your way around -* MobileOrg:: Viewing and capture on a mobile device * History and acknowledgments:: How Org came into being * GNU Free Documentation License:: The license for this documentation. * Main Index:: An index of Org's concepts and features @@ -760,12 +759,19 @@ Top * TTY keys:: Using Org on a tty * Interaction:: With other Emacs packages * org-crypt:: Encrypting Org files +* Org Mobile:: Viewing and capture on a mobile device Interaction with other packages * Cooperation:: Packages Org cooperates with * Conflicts:: Packages that lead to conflicts +Org Mobile + +* Setting up the staging area:: For the mobile device +* Pushing to the mobile application:: Uploading Org files and agendas +* Pulling from the mobile application:: Integrating captured and flagged items + Hacking * Hooks:: How to reach into Org's internals @@ -788,12 +794,6 @@ Top * Translator functions:: Copy and modify * Radio lists:: Sending and receiving lists -MobileOrg - -* Setting up the staging area:: For the mobile device -* Pushing to MobileOrg:: Uploading Org files and agendas -* Pulling from MobileOrg:: Integrating captured and flagged items - @end detailmenu @end menu @@ -17253,6 +17253,7 @@ Miscellaneous * TTY keys:: Using Org on a tty * Interaction:: With other Emacs packages * org-crypt:: Encrypting Org files +* Org Mobile:: Viewing and capture on a mobile device @end menu @@ -18187,6 +18188,150 @@ org-crypt Excluding the crypt tag from inheritance prevents encrypting previously encrypted text. +@node Org Mobile +@section Org Mobile + +@cindex smartphone + +Org Mobile is a protocol for synchronizing Org files between Emacs and +other applications, e.g., on mobile devices. It enables offline-views +and capture support for an Org mode system that is rooted on a ``real'' +computer. The external application can also record changes to +existing entries. + +This appendix describes Org's support for agenda view formats +compatible with Org Mobile. It also describes synchronizing changes, +such as to notes, between the mobile application and the computer. + +To change tags and TODO states in the mobile application, first +customize the variables @code{org-todo-keywords} and @code{org-tag-alist}. +These should cover all the important tags and TODO keywords, even if +Org files use only some of them. Though the mobile application is +expected to support in-buffer settings, it is required to understand +TODO states @emph{sets} (see @ref{Per-file keywords}) and +@emph{mutually exclusive} tags (see @ref{Setting tags}) only for those set in +these variables. + +@menu +* Setting up the staging area:: For the mobile device +* Pushing to the mobile application:: Uploading Org files and agendas +* Pulling from the mobile application:: Integrating captured and flagged items +@end menu + +@node Setting up the staging area +@subsection Setting up the staging area + +@vindex org-mobile-directory +The mobile application needs access to a file directory on +a server@footnote{For a server to host files, consider using a WebDAV server, +such as @uref{https://nextcloud.com, Nextcloud}. Additional help is at this @uref{https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav, FAQ entry}.} to interact with Emacs. Pass its location through +the @code{org-mobile-directory} variable. If you can mount that directory +locally just set the variable to point to that directory: + +@lisp +(setq org-mobile-directory "~/orgmobile/") +@end lisp + +@noindent +Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see @ref{Top,TRAMP User Manual,,tramp,}), +@code{org-mobile-directory} may point to a remote directory accessible +through, for example, SSH and SCP: + +@lisp +(setq org-mobile-directory "/scpc:user@@remote.host:org/webdav/") +@end lisp + +@vindex org-mobile-encryption +With a public server, consider encrypting the files. Org also +requires OpenSSL installed on the local computer. To turn on +encryption, set the same password in the mobile application and in +Emacs. Set the password in the variable +@code{org-mobile-use-encryption}@footnote{If Emacs is configured for safe storing of passwords, then +configure the variable @code{org-mobile-encryption-password}; please read +the docstring of that variable.}. Note that even after the mobile +application encrypts the file contents, the file name remains visible +on the file systems of the local computer, the server, and the mobile +device. + +@node Pushing to the mobile application +@subsection Pushing to the mobile application + +@findex org-mobile-push +@vindex org-mobile-files +The command @code{org-mobile-push} copies files listed in +@code{org-mobile-files} into the staging area. Files include agenda files +(as listed in @code{org-agenda-files}). Customize @code{org-mobile-files} to +add other files. File names are staged with paths relative to +@code{org-directory}, so all files should be inside this directory@footnote{Symbolic links in @code{org-directory} need to have the same name +as their targets.}. + +Push creates a special Org file @samp{agendas.org} with custom agenda views +defined by the user@footnote{While creating the agendas, Org mode forces ID properties on +all referenced entries, so that these entries can be uniquely +identified if Org Mobile flags them for further action. To avoid +setting properties configure the variable +@code{org-mobile-force-id-on-agenda-items} to @code{nil}. Org mode then relies +on outline paths, assuming they are unique.}. + +Finally, Org writes the file @samp{index.org}, containing links to other +files. The mobile application reads this file first from the server +to determine what other files to download for agendas. For faster +downloads, it is expected to only read files whose checksums@footnote{Checksums are stored automatically in the file +@samp{checksums.dat}.} +have changed. + +@node Pulling from the mobile application +@subsection Pulling from the mobile application + +@findex org-mobile-pull +The command @code{org-mobile-pull} synchronizes changes with the server. +More specifically, it first pulls the Org files for viewing. It then +appends captured entries and pointers to flagged or changed entries to +the file @samp{mobileorg.org} on the server. Org ultimately integrates its +data in an inbox file format, through the following steps: + +@enumerate +@item +@vindex org-mobile-inbox-for-pull +Org moves all entries found in @samp{mobileorg.org}@footnote{The file will be empty after this operation.} and appends +them to the file pointed to by the variable +@code{org-mobile-inbox-for-pull}. It should reside neither in the +staging area nor on the server. Each captured entry and each +editing event is a top-level entry in the inbox file. + +@item +@cindex @samp{FLAGGED}, tag +After moving the entries, Org processes changes to the shared +files. Some of them are applied directly and without user +interaction. Examples include changes to tags, TODO state, +headline and body text. Entries requiring further action are +tagged as @samp{FLAGGED}. Org marks entries with problems with an error +message in the inbox. They have to be resolved manually. + +@item +Org generates an agenda view for flagged entries for user +intervention to clean up. For notes stored in flagged entries, Org +displays them in the echo area when point is on the corresponding +agenda item. + +@table @asis +@item @kbd{?} +Pressing @kbd{?} displays the entire flagged note in +another window. Org also pushes it to the kill ring. To +store flagged note as a normal note, use @kbd{? z C-y C-c C-c}. Pressing @kbd{?} twice does these things: first +it removes the @samp{FLAGGED} tag; second, it removes the flagged +note from the property drawer; third, it signals that manual +editing of the flagged entry is now finished. +@end table +@end enumerate + +@kindex ? @r{(Agenda dispatcher)} +From the agenda dispatcher, @kbd{?} returns to the view to finish +processing flagged entries. Note that these entries may not be the +most recent since the mobile application searches files that were last +pulled. To get an updated agenda view with changes since the last +pull, pull again. + @node Hacking @appendix Hacking @cindex hacking @@ -19151,140 +19296,6 @@ Using the mapping API (length (org-map-entries t "/+WAITING" 'agenda)) @end lisp -@node MobileOrg -@appendix MobileOrg -@cindex iPhone -@cindex MobileOrg - -MobileOrg is a companion mobile app that runs on iOS and Android devices. -MobileOrg enables offline-views and capture support for an Org mode system -that is rooted on a ``real'' computer. MobileOrg can record changes to -existing entries. - -The @uref{https://github.com/MobileOrg/, iOS implementation} for the -@emph{iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad} series of devices, was started by Richard -Moreland and is now in the hands Sean Escriva. Android users should check -out @uref{http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/, MobileOrg -Android} by Matt Jones. Though the two implementations are not identical, -they offer similar features. - -This appendix describes Org's support for agenda view formats compatible with -MobileOrg. It also describes synchronizing changes, such as to notes, -between MobileOrg and the computer. - -To change tags and TODO states in MobileOrg, first customize the variables -@code{org-todo-keywords} and @code{org-tag-alist}. These should cover all -the important tags and TODO keywords, even if Org files use only some of -them. Though MobileOrg has in-buffer settings, it understands TODO states -@emph{sets} (@pxref{Per-file keywords}) and @emph{mutually exclusive} tags -(@pxref{Setting tags}) only for those set in these variables. - -@menu -* Setting up the staging area:: For the mobile device -* Pushing to MobileOrg:: Uploading Org files and agendas -* Pulling from MobileOrg:: Integrating captured and flagged items -@end menu - -@node Setting up the staging area -@section Setting up the staging area - -MobileOrg needs access to a file directory on a server to interact with -Emacs. With a public server, consider encrypting the files. MobileOrg -version 1.5 supports encryption for the iPhone. Org also requires -@file{openssl} installed on the local computer. To turn on encryption, set -the same password in MobileOrg and in Emacs. Set the password in the -variable @code{org-mobile-use-encryption}@footnote{If Emacs is configured for -safe storing of passwords, then configure the variable, -@code{org-mobile-encryption-password}; please read the docstring of that -variable.}. Note that even after MobileOrg encrypts the file contents, the -file names will remain visible on the file systems of the local computer, the -server, and the mobile device. - -For a server to host files, consider options like -@uref{http://dropbox.com,Dropbox.com} account@footnote{An alternative is to -use webdav server. MobileOrg documentation has details of webdav server -configuration. Additional help is at -@uref{https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav, FAQ entry}.}. -On first connection, MobileOrg creates a directory @file{MobileOrg/} on -Dropbox. Pass its location to Emacs through an init file variable as -follows: - -@lisp -(setq org-mobile-directory "~/Dropbox/MobileOrg") -@end lisp - -Org copies files to the above directory for MobileOrg. Org also uses the -same directory for sharing notes between Org and MobileOrg. - -@node Pushing to MobileOrg -@section Pushing to MobileOrg - -Org pushes files listed in @code{org-mobile-files} to -@code{org-mobile-directory}. Files include agenda files (as listed in -@code{org-agenda-files}). Customize @code{org-mobile-files} to add other -files. File names will be staged with paths relative to -@code{org-directory}, so all files should be inside this -directory@footnote{Symbolic links in @code{org-directory} should have the -same name as their targets.}. - -Push creates a special Org file @file{agendas.org} with custom agenda views -defined by the user@footnote{While creating the agendas, Org mode will force -ID properties on all referenced entries, so that these entries can be -uniquely identified if MobileOrg flags them for further action. To avoid -setting properties configure the variable -@code{org-mobile-force-id-on-agenda-items} to @code{nil}. Org mode will then -rely on outline paths, assuming they are unique.}. - -Org writes the file @file{index.org}, containing links to other files. -MobileOrg reads this file first from the server to determine what other files -to download for agendas. For faster downloads, MobileOrg will read only -those files whose checksums@footnote{Checksums are stored automatically in -the file @file{checksums.dat}.} have changed. - -@node Pulling from MobileOrg -@section Pulling from MobileOrg - -When MobileOrg synchronizes with the server, it pulls the Org files for -viewing. It then appends to the file @file{mobileorg.org} on the server the -captured entries, pointers to flagged and changed entries. Org integrates -its data in an inbox file format. - -@enumerate -@item -Org moves all entries found in -@file{mobileorg.org}@footnote{@file{mobileorg.org} will be empty after this -operation.} and appends them to the file pointed to by the variable -@code{org-mobile-inbox-for-pull}. Each captured entry and each editing event -is a top-level entry in the inbox file. -@item -After moving the entries, Org attempts changes to MobileOrg. Some changes -are applied directly and without user interaction. Examples include changes -to tags, TODO state, headline and body text. Entries for further action are -tagged as @code{:FLAGGED:}. Org marks entries with problems with an error -message in the inbox. They have to be resolved manually. -@item -Org generates an agenda view for flagged entries for user intervention to -clean up. For notes stored in flagged entries, MobileOrg displays them in -the echo area when the cursor is on the corresponding agenda item. - -@table @kbd -@kindex ? -@item ? -Pressing @kbd{?} displays the entire flagged note in another window. Org -also pushes it to the kill ring. To store flagged note as a normal note, use -@kbd{? z C-y C-c C-c}. Pressing @kbd{?} twice does these things: first it -removes the @code{:FLAGGED:} tag; second, it removes the flagged note from -the property drawer; third, it signals that manual editing of the flagged -entry is now finished. -@end table -@end enumerate - -@kindex C-c a ? -@kbd{C-c a ?} returns to the agenda view to finish processing flagged -entries. Note that these entries may not be the most recent since MobileOrg -searches files that were last pulled. To get an updated agenda view with -changes since the last pull, pull again. - @node History and acknowledgments @appendix History and acknowledgments @cindex acknowledgments -- 2.19.0 ^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-29 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, rms, right.ho, rasmus, kaushal.modi, 32722 > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> > Cc: rms@gnu.org, 32722@debbugs.gnu.org, n@flqt.fr, leslie@watter.net, right.ho@gmail.com, kaushal.modi@gmail.com, Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:33:35 +0200 > > > Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, > > please? > > I don't have access to the Emacs repository. > > You can either give me write access there, or I can send you the Texinfo > @node contents, or someone with write access could do it for us. I'm > Cc'ing Rasmus for the last option. I could install a patch that you produced from the Org repository's appropriate branch. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-09-29 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: n, rms, right.ho, leslie, Rasmus, kaushal.modi, 32722 Hello, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > Thank you. Can we have this change on the ermacs-26 branch of Emacs, > please? I don't have access to the Emacs repository. You can either give me write access there, or I can send you the Texinfo @node contents, or someone with write access could do it for us. I'm Cc'ing Rasmus for the last option. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 14:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-30 9:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou Cc: n, Richard Stallman, right.ho, 32722, kaushal.modi, leslie Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: > Hello, Hi Nicolas, > 1 Setting up the staging area > ═════════════════════════════ > > The mobile application needs access to a file directory on a server[1] > > Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), > `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible > through, for example, SSH and SCP: > > ┌──── > │ (setq org-mobile-directory "/scpc:user@remote.host:org/webdav/") > └──── > > [1] For a server to host files, consider using a WebDAV server, such > as [Nextcloud] (<https://nextcloud.com>). Not every WebDAV server will support an ssh connection. On GNU/Linux systems, Tramp supports also the connection methods "dav", "davs", and "nextcloud" (this one since Emacs 27). Maybe it is worth to mention this. > Regards, Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-29 14:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou 3 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-30 9:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, Richard Stallman, right.ho, 32722, kaushal.modi Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: > Hello, Hi Nicolas, > 1 Setting up the staging area > ═════════════════════════════ > > The mobile application needs access to a file directory on a server[1] > > Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), > `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible > through, for example, SSH and SCP: > > ┌──── > │ (setq org-mobile-directory "/scpc:user@remote.host:org/webdav/") > └──── > > [1] For a server to host files, consider using a WebDAV server, such > as [Nextcloud] (<https://nextcloud.com>). Not every WebDAV server will support an ssh connection. On GNU/Linux systems, Tramp supports also the connection methods "dav", "davs", and "nextcloud" (this one since Emacs 27). Maybe it is worth to mention this. > Regards, Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus @ 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 9:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Albinus Cc: n, Richard Stallman, right.ho, leslie, kaushal.modi, 32722 Hello, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes: > Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: >> Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), >> `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible >> through, for example, SSH and SCP: >> >> ┌──── >> │ (setq org-mobile-directory "/scpc:user@remote.host:org/webdav/") >> └──── >> >> [1] For a server to host files, consider using a WebDAV server, such >> as [Nextcloud] (<https://nextcloud.com>). > > Not every WebDAV server will support an ssh connection. On GNU/Linux > systems, Tramp supports also the connection methods "dav", "davs", and > "nextcloud" (this one since Emacs 27). Maybe it is worth to mention > this. Sure. How about this? Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible through, for example, SSH, SCP, or DAVS: (setq org-mobile-directory "/davs:/user@remote.host:org/webdav/") Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus 2018-10-22 13:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 13:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus 1 sibling, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2018-10-22 11:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou Cc: n, Richard Stallman, right.ho, leslie, kaushal.modi, 32722 Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: > Hello, Hi Nicolas, > Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), > `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible > through, for example, SSH, SCP, or DAVS: > > (setq org-mobile-directory "/davs:/user@remote.host:org/webdav/") Pls use (setq org-mobile-directory "/davs:user@remote.host.org:/webdav/") Otherwise, LGTM. > Regards, Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus @ 2018-10-22 13:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 13:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: n, Richard Stallman, right.ho, kaushal.modi, 32722 Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes: > Pls use (setq org-mobile-directory "/davs:user@remote.host.org:/webdav/") > Otherwise, LGTM. Done. Thank you. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus 2018-10-22 13:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 13:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Albinus Cc: n, Richard Stallman, right.ho, leslie, kaushal.modi, 32722 Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes: > Pls use (setq org-mobile-directory "/davs:user@remote.host.org:/webdav/") > Otherwise, LGTM. Done. Thank you. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus @ 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2018-10-22 11:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, Richard Stallman, right.ho, kaushal.modi, 32722 Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: > Hello, Hi Nicolas, > Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), > `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible > through, for example, SSH, SCP, or DAVS: > > (setq org-mobile-directory "/davs:/user@remote.host:org/webdav/") Pls use (setq org-mobile-directory "/davs:user@remote.host.org:/webdav/") Otherwise, LGTM. > Regards, Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2018-10-22 9:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: n, Richard Stallman, right.ho, kaushal.modi, 32722 Hello, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes: > Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes: >> Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), >> `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible >> through, for example, SSH and SCP: >> >> ┌──── >> │ (setq org-mobile-directory "/scpc:user@remote.host:org/webdav/") >> └──── >> >> [1] For a server to host files, consider using a WebDAV server, such >> as [Nextcloud] (<https://nextcloud.com>). > > Not every WebDAV server will support an ssh connection. On GNU/Linux > systems, Tramp supports also the connection methods "dav", "davs", and > "nextcloud" (this one since Emacs 27). Maybe it is worth to mention > this. Sure. How about this? Alternatively, by using TRAMP (see [TRAMP User Manual]), `org-mobile-directory' may point to a remote directory accessible through, for example, SSH, SCP, or DAVS: (setq org-mobile-directory "/davs:/user@remote.host:org/webdav/") Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-21 19:21 ` bug#32722: [O] " Leslie Watter 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-23 1:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: leslie; +Cc: n, 32722, right.ho, kaushal.modi [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Just a little information: since Dropbox update their API to 2.0 > MobileOrg with this backend stopped to work, so anyone willing to use it > will have > to use either WebDAV, SSH or Local filesystem. AFAIK, there's no active > development of MobileOrg > in terms of having this issue [0] solved. This is actually good news. It means Android MobileOrg is almost ok. If someone wants to do a little work on Android MobileOrg, so it could go into f-droid, we could recommend its use. But the doc should be updated. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-19 12:29 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-20 1:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: n, kaushal.modi, 32722, rms [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The crucial question here is whether Mobile.org is free software. If it is not, then GNU packages including their documentation should not mention it at all. See the chapter References in the GNU Coding Standards. What is the source license of Mobile.org? Does Mobile.org for Android link with any nonfree libraries, such as Google Play Library? Is it listed in f-droid.org? I don't think it is possible to have free apps for the iMonsters. This is because iOS does not allow users to install modified versions of apps, even if the app's source is released under a free license. Another issue is the suggestion to use DropBox. Normal use of Dropbox involves running nonfree JS software (see https://gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html), so we cannot recommend using Dropbox in the normal way. If there is a way to use Dropbox (for those operations that are necessary in this context) without running any nonfree client software, it would be ok to recommend using Dropbox _in that way_. (The operations necessary in this context must include creating an account.) However, the text you showed me does not include such a specific recommendation, so we have to eliminate it. We could reinsert the discussion of Dropbox if and when someone writes text to recommend a suitable specific way to use it. > [fn:146] An alternative is to use a WebDAV server. MobileOrg > documentation has details of WebDAV server configuration. Additional > help is at this [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav][FAQ entry]]. Is this a way to use MobileOrg without Dropbox? Is the WebDAV server code free software? Can you talk to such a server without any nonfree client software? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-18 9:37 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2018-09-18 14:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-18 14:43 ` Nicolas Floquet 3 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Floquet @ 2018-09-18 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Goaziou, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: kaushal.modi, 32722, rms [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1073 bytes --] Le mardi 18 septembre 2018 à 11:37 +0200, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit : > I read the thread multiple times already but I do not understand > exactly the issue risen. Actually, it's an ethical issue. That are not always easily solved with technical solutions, I guess… > From the OP: "Emacs quotes Github, a non-free platform." If that's > the real problem, we can remove the location of the "htmlize" library > from the error message and be done with it. Indeed. > Note that the Org manual still talks about iOS and Android, which are > not free either. It's true. I don't know what to think about this. -- | Numérion | Nicolas Floquet | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Services informatiques en logiciels libres | | XMPP : nflqt@jabber.fr | Tél : 06.32.93.03.51 | | Ğ1 : BjZFP7UpKjJ9hbavhT2Ep2hP58noXp6xdPY4awsX17yD | | PGP : 94C7 641B 719E B06A F406 7AB3 3709 C700 E548 F996 | +----------------------------------------------------------+ [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Kaushal Modi @ 2018-09-13 15:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: n, 32722, mail, rms On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: > > Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. > Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506) This has been discussed before on the Org mailing list. From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify instead of htmlize. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-09-12 14:06 bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-12 15:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman 2 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-09-13 3:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Nicolas Floquet; +Cc: 32722 [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs (counting ELPA). So this needs to be deleted. If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs. Is there some obstacle to that? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? @ 2018-12-03 10:22 Van L 2018-12-03 13:37 ` Jonathan Leech-Pepin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Van L @ 2018-12-03 10:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: emacs-org list > As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other > external stuff A data point. Ditaa requires a JRE as mentioned at http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-ditaa.html The litigious terms are ditaa version 0.9, Copyright (C) 2004--2009 Efstathios (Stathis) Sideris I didn’t find ditaa.jar in org-mode’s contrib/scripts as claimed. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-12-03 10:22 bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: " Van L @ 2018-12-03 13:37 ` Jonathan Leech-Pepin 2018-12-04 9:41 ` Van L 2018-12-05 0:31 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 2 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Jonathan Leech-Pepin @ 2018-12-03 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: van; +Cc: Org Mode Mailing List, rms [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 727 bytes --] Hello, On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 5:28 AM Van L <van@scratch.space> wrote: > > As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other > > external stuff > > A data point. > > Ditaa requires a JRE as mentioned at > > http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-ditaa.html > > The litigious terms are > > ditaa version 0.9, Copyright (C) 2004--2009 Efstathios (Stathis) Sideris > > I didn’t find ditaa.jar in org-mode’s contrib/scripts as claimed. > I can't speak for why it is/isn't in the contrib/scripts directory, but if you go to Github for the most up to date version it is GPLv3 https://github.com/stathissideris/ditaa/blob/master/LICENSE Regards, Jon [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1292 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-12-03 13:37 ` Jonathan Leech-Pepin @ 2018-12-04 9:41 ` Van L 2018-12-05 0:31 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Van L @ 2018-12-04 9:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jonathan Leech-Pepin; +Cc: Org Mode Mailing List > go to Github > for the most up to date version it is GPLv3 > https://github.com/stathissideris/ditaa/blob/master/LICENSE The official-looking site sends you to SourceForge. Git and Svn repo functions are available there. At the time, the git part of it was empty. Building the 131K jar required the JDK on top the JRE, and, an IDE on top of that to press the Play button to build. Perhaps, org-mode can lean in toward extensions that are Free/Open/C/ELisp where possible. In this case, for a little bit of the GIMP to convert ASCII art to SVG or GIF image. The GIMP’s Script-Fu is a kind of Lisp. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-12-03 13:37 ` Jonathan Leech-Pepin 2018-12-04 9:41 ` Van L @ 2018-12-05 0:31 ` Richard Stallman 2018-12-05 11:54 ` Van L 1 sibling, 1 reply; 163+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-12-05 0:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jonathan Leech-Pepin; +Cc: van, emacs-orgmode [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > you go to Github > for the most up to date version it is GPLv3 > https://github.com/stathissideris/ditaa/blob/master/LICENSE This is an illustration of the confused and harmful license practices that Github has encouraged. That file does not tell us how the code is licensed. It could be under GPL version 3 only, or GPL version 3-or-later. This is a crucial question. MAYBE something else in the package will say. Or maybe not. The proper way to use the GPL is to put a license notice in each source file, which would give the answer to this question. However, Github has taught people not to bother with this. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? 2018-12-05 0:31 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-12-05 11:54 ` Van L 0 siblings, 0 replies; 163+ messages in thread From: Van L @ 2018-12-05 11:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Jonathan Leech-Pepin >> you go to Github >> for the most up to date version it is GPLv3 >> https://github.com/stathissideris/ditaa/blob/master/LICENSE > > That file does not tell us how the code is licensed. > It could be under GPL version 3 only, or GPL version > 3-or-later. > The proper way to use the GPL is to put a license notice in each > source file, which would give the answer to this question. CC has a mechanism to help choose, apply the license aligned to intent. https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 163+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-05-24 8:05 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 163+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2018-09-12 14:06 bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ? Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-12 15:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-13 7:33 ` Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-13 7:33 ` Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-13 15:26 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-13 15:36 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales 2018-09-13 21:58 ` bug#32722: [O] " Samuel Wales 2018-09-13 21:58 ` Samuel Wales 2018-09-13 21:58 ` bug#32722: " Samuel Wales 2018-09-14 2:55 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-14 2:55 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-14 6:04 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-16 12:30 ` Adam Porter 2018-09-17 20:21 ` Nick Dokos 2018-09-18 13:12 ` Bernt Hansen 2018-09-14 6:04 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 9:37 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 9:37 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 11:49 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein 2018-09-19 3:41 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 7:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-19 7:22 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 12:14 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein 2018-09-18 11:49 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 14:21 ` Nick Dokos 2018-09-18 14:49 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-18 14:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-18 16:37 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Robert Horn 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 16:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein 2018-09-18 18:53 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein 2018-09-18 18:57 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-18 19:29 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-18 18:57 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-25 23:04 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-25 23:04 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 21:07 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-18 22:08 ` bug#32722: [O] " Amin Bandali 2018-09-18 22:08 ` bug#32722: " Amin Bandali 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-20 1:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 4:24 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 4:24 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 10:43 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Joe Corneli 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:13 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 10:22 ` bug#32722: [O] " Joe Corneli 2018-09-22 1:52 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-22 1:52 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 10:22 ` Joe Corneli 2018-09-20 10:43 ` Joe Corneli 2018-09-20 1:54 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 5:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 8:13 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Robert Klein 2018-09-20 8:13 ` bug#32722: [O] " Robert Klein 2018-09-20 19:17 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 20:50 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 20:50 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2018-10-22 13:13 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 13:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-10-22 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 19:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 23:17 ` Adam Porter 2018-09-21 0:39 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-21 1:54 ` Adam Porter 2018-09-21 21:30 ` Kaushal Modi 2018-09-19 21:16 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 5:21 ` Adam Porter 2018-09-19 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 17:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:39 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-20 4:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:18 ` Richard Stallman 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-05-16 15:25 ` Nicolas Floquet 2019-06-09 16:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Amin Bandali 2019-06-09 16:54 ` bug#32722: " Amin Bandali 2019-05-16 15:16 ` Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-18 20:41 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-19 3:40 ` bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:40 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-24 9:54 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-24 9:54 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-18 16:37 ` Robert Horn 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 3:41 ` bug#32722: " Richard Stallman 2018-09-19 12:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-19 12:29 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 12:40 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 12:40 ` bug#32722: [O] " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-20 14:31 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-20 14:31 ` bug#32722: " Michael Albinus 2018-09-20 12:59 ` bug#32722: [O] " Bingo UV 2018-09-20 12:59 ` Bingo UV 2018-09-21 2:13 ` bug#32722: [O] " Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 2:13 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-21 19:21 ` bug#32722: bug#32722: " Leslie Watter 2018-09-21 19:21 ` bug#32722: [O] " Leslie Watter 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-29 14:53 ` bug#32722: " Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 14:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 23:35 ` bug#32722: " Kyle Meyer 2018-09-30 11:43 ` bug#32722: [O] " Eli Zaretskii 2020-05-24 8:03 ` Bastien 2020-05-24 8:03 ` Bastien 2018-09-30 11:43 ` bug#32722: " Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 23:35 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kyle Meyer 2018-09-29 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-29 18:33 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-30 9:27 ` Michael Albinus 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus 2018-10-22 13:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 13:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-10-22 11:07 ` Michael Albinus 2018-10-22 9:39 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2018-09-23 1:38 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-20 1:50 ` Richard Stallman 2018-09-18 14:43 ` Nicolas Floquet 2018-09-13 15:36 ` bug#32722: [O] " Kaushal Modi 2018-09-13 3:35 ` Richard Stallman -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 2018-12-03 10:22 bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: " Van L 2018-12-03 13:37 ` Jonathan Leech-Pepin 2018-12-04 9:41 ` Van L 2018-12-05 0:31 ` Richard Stallman 2018-12-05 11:54 ` Van L
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