all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
* "Why is emacs so square?"
@ 2020-04-14 15:06 ndame
  2020-04-15  3:00 ` Richard Stallman
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 577+ messages in thread
From: ndame @ 2020-04-14 15:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel@gnu.org

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 407 bytes --]

A user on reddit asked this once and he was not wrong, because
emacs does seem blocky compared to modern designs, which often employs
rounded corners, e.g for buttons:

https://www.webdesignerwall.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/button-preview.jpg

It could improve the square apperance if, for example, emacs provided some text
properties to specify rounded corners with custom radius for background colors.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1601 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 577+ messages in thread
* Re: "Why is emacs so square?"
@ 2020-04-15  4:49 ndame
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 577+ messages in thread
From: ndame @ 2020-04-15  4:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel@gnu.org

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 518 bytes --]

> Oh yes, because everyone chooses Emacs for hipster graphics
> rather than for a free, sophisticated tool that lets you get
> work done.

You may not care about visual appearance, but many people do and they want a tool which is pleasant to look at.

Even on the Emacs subreddit which is a place for active Emacs users people often post packages which pimp up Emacs:

https://preview.redd.it/nu0zfp2rcds41.png?width=1072&format=png&auto=webp&s=6913236a90c2315dcddd4a4224f7d72b1ab19d19

https://i.imgur.com/ZJW9UN4.png

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 935 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 577+ messages in thread
* Re: "Why is emacs so square?"
@ 2020-04-16 11:16 ndame
  2020-04-16 11:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 577+ messages in thread
From: ndame @ 2020-04-16 11:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emacs developers

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 289 bytes --]

> This is because GTK+ has a bug that AFAIR they don't intend to fix
> because they don't consider our use of GTK+ important enough (or
> correct, for that matter).

Is it hard to fix the GTK side in Emacs, so it uses GTK correctly as
the GTK developers intended, so the bug doesn't occur?

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 398 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 577+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <<8wXYP4GY9hwW-9mYv6_LGMETZ8Vz3Ob1Bec6yh6kPT7yxjTkxA3V6dXY4ELra9tYiJUxJmgXKSIEX4w8HFiPRoeGVSQHDSoBVy1voj1e3Qo=@protonmail.com>]
* Re: "Why is emacs so square?"
@ 2020-04-24 16:38 ndame
  2020-04-24 17:57 ` 조성빈
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 577+ messages in thread
From: ndame @ 2020-04-24 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emacs developers

> Maybe some improvements to the welcome screen. A better tutorial (which showcases advanced features, not just the "alien" part of Emacs) and/or some guides.

If the cursor keys work out of the box then the tutorial should
begin with features which can be used without learning new cursor keys,
demonstrating something which emacs does well or better than other
tools. Is there such a thing? Or does learning emacs mostly pay off
for the advanced user? I can't think of a feature right know where
emacs shines for the casual user.

C-v and stuff are advanced topics IMO which pay off mostly in the long
run, not at the beginning, they could be shown in an advanced section
of the tutorial later.

And for keybindings there is no real need to switch to emacs, because,
for example, vscode can also have emacs keys:

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=tuttieee.emacs-mcx


So some feature should be found which can be shown for the casual user at the beginning
of the tutorial which may convince the user that emacs is worth the effort.

IMO  starting with C-v, etc. keys just puts off must users who casually try emacs.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 577+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <<ae2588b0-c9ab-4c29-88e4-d1c6be5dfe94@default>]
* Re: "Why is emacs so square?"
@ 2020-05-26 17:09 Jeff Norden
  2020-05-26 23:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 577+ messages in thread
From: Jeff Norden @ 2020-05-26 17:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Copied below is what I've posted to lwn.net in response to the article "Making
Emacs popular again" (https://lwn.net/Articles/819452/) about this thread.
Some of it, particularly the last part, is in response to that article rather
than anything that anyone has or would say on the emacs-devel list.
------------------------------
I'm late to this party, but as a longtime user of Gnu emacs, I feel obligated
to weigh in.  I've been using emacs on an almost daily basis for 30+ years.  I
use rmail for about 90% of my email.  I use a customized version of TeX mode
for composing documents, which include exams/quizzes/handout for the classes I
teach, research-related work, as well as mundane letters, memos, notes, etc.
I use emacs for all of the software that I write and/or dabble with, mostly
Perl and C.  I use shell-mode about as often as I use a terminal window
(currently mate-terminal, a fork of the pre-gnome-3 gnome-terminal).

To start with, the idea that emacs "needs" to have more users to prevent it
from becoming "extinct" is basically absurd.  Free software, by its very
nature, *can't* become extinct.  Even if current trends/fads mean that there
is a lull in the number of people using Gnu emacs today, the source code will
still be available for future generations to discover and use.  It's about
like saying that we must find a way to make the "Early New English" language
of the 17th century more appealing and widely spoken in order to prevent the
works of Shakespeare from becoming extinct.  Even if, for some reason, people
stopped reading and producing Shakespeare's plays for a number of years, they
would undoubtedly be re-discovered and become popular again.

This all seems to be part of the current insane attitude that software, and
technology in general, is some sort of perishable commodity with the shelf
life of milk.  Somehow, if it isn't updated every month or so, it just isn't
any good any more, even though it still does what it used to and your needs
for it haven't changed.

Emacs has never been an editor for "casual" user.  It doesn't compete with
notepad, any of the various "office" editors (open source or not), or even
vi/vim.  Gnu emacs is for people that want an extensible editor that gives
them complete control over how it operates, and can be easily and freely
customized to accomplish any sort of task that they want it to.  This sort of
freedom comes with a price - you need to invest some time and effort in order
to learn how to use it effectively.  But for many of us, it is an effort that
has been more than worthwhile.

In my opinion, it would be incredibly counterproductive to try to attract
people who don't need the functionality that emacs provides, or who aren't
willing to put forth the effort required to learn how to effectively use that
functionality.  I believe this means that any person who's decision on whether
or not to use an editor is swayed by the appearance of buttons or rounded
corners is someone who should *not* be encouraged to start using emacs.  If
you are not attracted to emacs by the features it provides and the tasks it
can accomplish, then please find an editor that will better suit your needs.

On the other hand, if someone wants to add such features for their own
benefit, perhaps because they feel it will enhance their own aesthetic
experience while using emacs, then by all means do so.  That is the whole
point of free software, after all.  But adding these in an attempt to attract
more users is a bad idea.

My *fear* is that a major effort to increase the "user base" will lead to the
transformation of emacs into something that doesn't serve anybody's needs very
well.  This is happening in many open source projects, where all sorts of
functionality has been deprecated and then removed because of the perception
that it isn't needed or being used by a large enough fraction of users.  The
recent loss of malloc_get_state() and malloc_set_state() are examples that are
particularly relevant to emacs.

Even in emacs, I personally found it a bit annoying to type "M-x count lines
region" only to be told in the mini-buffer that:
  ‘count-lines-region’ is obsolete; use ‘count-words-region’ instead.
But this was easily fixed by adding a single line to my .emacs file.  However,
if large blocks of code start disappearing from the source, or changes are
made that render existing elisp files unusable, then emacs really will run the
risk of becoming extinct.

For example, a package of elisp functions that I wrote 30 years ago for
emacs-18, which I use to record and average student grades, still works just
fine with emacs-26.  TeX is the only other software that I know of with this
level of stability.  It seems that there are very few people today who, like
Knuth and Stallman, take a long-term view of what they are trying to
accomplish.  I could go on along these lines, but this is probably sufficient.

----

However, I feel that I must respond directly to some of the comments about RMS
that have been made, along the lines of "emacs would be better without him" or
his "signature tantrums."  I'll respond in a way that RMS never would, because
he is far too polite:

   Do you have any idea who the f*** you are talking about!!?

When Richard founded the FSF, which basically started the free software
movement, people tried to write him off as some sort of extremest nutcase.
"Nobody will write software and just give it away" was a common criticism.
Well, history has shown that Stallman was correct, and his critics were the
nutcases.  It's quite possible that there would be almost no free software, no
linux or lwn.net, no gitlab/github, etc, etc, if it had not been for his
unfailing efforts and unwavering belief in free software though the years.  My
own opinion is that, if anything, Richard's opinions and views are a bit too
mild and conservative.

The arrogance of youth is natural.  I was certainly guilty of it when I was
young.  But there is no excuse for disrespecting the people who basically
built the universe that you currently enjoy inhabiting.

-Jeff



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 577+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2024-04-09  5:07 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 577+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-04-14 15:06 "Why is emacs so square?" ndame
2020-04-15  3:00 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-15  4:33   ` ndame
2020-04-15  4:39   ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-15  4:54     ` ndame
2020-04-15  4:56     ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2020-04-16  2:30     ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-16  5:28       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16 16:27         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-16 18:26           ` Marcin Borkowski
2020-04-16 18:40             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16 18:54             ` Drew Adams
2020-04-16 17:32         ` Bob Newell
2020-05-14  2:32         ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-14 15:53           ` Drew Adams
2020-04-16  5:02     ` Jorge Javier Araya Navarro
2020-04-16 21:31     ` Juri Linkov
2020-04-15  6:27   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-15 14:17     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-15 14:31       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-15 16:34         ` Ulrich Mueller
2020-04-16 10:14           ` Alex Bennée
2020-04-16 10:22             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16 16:26               ` Closing displays GTK+ bug (was: "Why is emacs so square?") Ulrich Mueller
2020-04-16 16:36                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17  2:25                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-17  9:20                     ` Closing displays GTK+ bug Ulrich Mueller
2020-04-18  2:07                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-16 20:36                 ` Log out hanging after X-forwarded emacsclient [Was: Closing displays GTK+ bug] Adam Sjøgren via "Emacs development discussions.
2020-04-16 21:57                   ` James Cloos
2020-04-17 16:06                     ` Adam Sjøgren via "Emacs development discussions.
2020-04-18  9:45                       ` Robert Pluim
2020-04-18 17:20                         ` Adam Sjøgren via "Emacs development discussions.
2020-04-19 13:13                           ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-10 10:11                   ` Log out hanging after X-forwarded emacsclient Adam Sjøgren via "Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-12  6:57                     ` long-standing GTK bug (was: Log out hanging after X-forwarded emacsclient) andres.ramirez
2020-05-12  7:57                       ` long-standing GTK bug Adam Sjøgren via "Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-17 11:40                         ` Adam Sjøgren via "Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-17 22:05                           ` Adam Porter
2020-06-09  2:37                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-09 14:32                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-10  0:53                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-10 14:33                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-05-08 11:51                                   ` Adam Sjøgren
2021-05-09 10:27                                     ` Robert Pluim
2021-05-09 15:11                                       ` Adam Sjøgren
2021-05-10  9:16                                         ` Robert Pluim
2021-05-10 10:00                                           ` Adam Sjøgren
2021-05-10 12:50                                             ` Robert Pluim
2021-05-10 13:10                                               ` Adam Sjøgren
2021-05-10 14:13                                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-05-10 14:40                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-05-10 14:45                                                     ` Robert Pluim
2021-05-10 15:00                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-05-11  9:09                                                         ` Robert Pluim
2021-05-10  2:23                                     ` 황병희
2022-03-01 21:23                           ` Adam Sjøgren
2022-03-02 14:12                             ` Po Lu
2022-03-03  6:55                               ` Madhu
2022-03-03  7:21                                 ` Po Lu
2022-03-03  9:43                                   ` Madhu
2022-03-03 10:11                                     ` Po Lu
2022-03-03 12:06                                       ` Madhu
2022-03-03 13:05                                         ` Po Lu
2022-03-03 15:31                                           ` Madhu
2022-03-03 13:22                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-03-03 13:30                                           ` Po Lu
2022-03-04 15:21                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2024-04-09  5:07                   ` Log out hanging after X-forwarded emacsclient Thomas Fitzsimmons
2020-04-16 23:23               ` "Why is emacs so square?" chad
2020-04-18  2:03                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-18  7:06                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-20 22:14                   ` chad
2020-04-21  8:43                     ` Po Lu
2020-04-21  8:44                       ` Po Lu
2020-04-15 17:15         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-15 20:08           ` chad
2020-04-15 20:44             ` ndame
2020-04-16  5:06               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16  6:00                 ` ndame
2020-04-16 14:26                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16 15:52                     ` ndame
2020-04-16 16:25                       ` ndame
2020-04-17  2:25                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-16 19:14                     ` ndame
2020-04-16 19:26                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16 19:33                         ` ndame
2020-04-16 20:04                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-16 20:30                           ` ndame
2020-04-17  7:06                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17  7:28                               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-17 10:00                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-21 23:54                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-22 13:21                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 14:05                                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-22 14:29                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 15:17                                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-24  3:25                                             ` message-mode toolbars, was: " Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-30  4:27                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-04-30 18:26                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-30 18:44                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-30 23:57                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-01  6:18                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-30 22:16                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-04-30 22:44                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-11  1:37                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-22 16:14                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-22 16:55                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 17:04                                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-22 17:06                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-22 17:19                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 17:34                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-22 18:09                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 18:07                                                   ` chad
2020-04-22 18:24                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 18:45                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-23  9:42                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-23 15:04                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-23 21:46                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-23 20:36                                                   ` Alan Third
2020-04-23 17:10                                               ` Juan José García-Ripoll
2020-04-22 17:32                                             ` chad
2020-04-22 16:16                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-22 16:22                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 16:29                                             ` Robert Pluim
2020-04-22 18:02                                               ` Iñigo Serna
2020-04-22 18:05                                                 ` Robert Pluim
2020-04-23 12:36                                       ` Po Lu
2020-04-17  7:36                               ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-17  9:51                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17  8:50                               ` ndame
2020-04-17  9:59                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17 16:08                                   ` ndame
2020-04-18  2:04                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-18  9:53                                       ` Robert Pluim
2020-04-18 16:20                                         ` ndame
2020-04-19  6:02                                           ` Improving icons shipped with Emacs (was: "Why is emacs so square?") Po Lu
2020-04-19  6:52                                             ` Improving icons shipped with Emacs Po Lu
2020-04-19  7:04                                             ` Improving icons shipped with Emacs (was: "Why is emacs so square?") ndame
2020-04-19  7:06                                               ` Improving icons shipped with Emacs Po Lu
2020-04-19  7:14                                                 ` ndame
2020-04-19  7:20                                                   ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  7:56                                                     ` ndame
2020-04-19  7:58                                                       ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  2:20                                         ` "Why is emacs so square?" Richard Stallman
2020-04-19  2:33                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-19 13:20                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-20  2:18                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-20 14:55                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-21  1:52                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-21  4:40                                                   ` ndame
2020-04-22  3:17                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-18  2:04                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-15 22:11       ` Bob Newell
2020-04-15  3:35 ` Bob Newell
2020-04-15  3:44   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-15  6:28   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-15 13:57     ` Tim Cross
2020-04-15 14:09       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16 17:03         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-16 17:22           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16 18:11             ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-16 18:21               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16 19:51                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-16 19:52                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-17  7:09                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17 13:43                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-17 14:13                     ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-17 14:46                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17 15:27                         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-17 15:38                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17 15:52                             ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-17 17:16                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17 17:40                                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-17 17:45                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17 17:57                                     ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-17 18:36                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17 18:51                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-17 19:31                                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-17 20:14                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-17 20:57                                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-15 14:11       ` Andreas Schwab
2020-04-15  4:14 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2020-04-15 22:09 ` Christopher Lemmer Webber
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-04-15  4:49 ndame
2020-04-16 11:16 ndame
2020-04-16 11:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <<8wXYP4GY9hwW-9mYv6_LGMETZ8Vz3Ob1Bec6yh6kPT7yxjTkxA3V6dXY4ELra9tYiJUxJmgXKSIEX4w8HFiPRoeGVSQHDSoBVy1voj1e3Qo=@protonmail.com>
     [not found] ` <<E1jOYIC-000709-3J@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <<CADwFkmnyYPjLd8=N7K955v5+34+wgDAUrC6C6KGG0xvT3OJr9g@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]     ` <<E1jOuIG-0004CF-OB@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <<83y2qwdmnd.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-04-16 14:58         ` Drew Adams
2020-04-16 15:34           ` Joseph Garvin
2020-04-16 15:42             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-16 18:29             ` Marcin Borkowski
2020-04-17 22:05             ` Ahmed Khanzada
2020-04-18  6:47               ` martin rudalics
2020-04-18  7:07                 ` ndame
2020-04-18 23:02               ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-18 23:13                 ` Ahmed Khanzada
2020-04-19  0:42                   ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  2:10                     ` Ahmed Khanzada
2020-04-19  2:28                       ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  4:48                     ` ndame
2020-04-19  5:37                       ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  5:43                         ` Po Lu
2020-04-19 12:59                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-19 22:53                             ` Po Lu
2020-04-19 23:34                               ` Bob Newell
2020-04-20  4:34                                 ` Po Lu
2020-04-20  5:12                                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-21  1:47                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-19 23:39                               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-20  0:12                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-20  4:35                                   ` Po Lu
2020-04-20 13:27                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-21  8:48                                       ` Po Lu
2020-04-24  9:10                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-24 15:48                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-24 16:31                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-27 12:30                                       ` Improved welcome screen Stefan Kangas
2020-04-27 17:58                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-27 19:07                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-27 19:13                                             ` Yuan Fu
2020-04-27 19:32                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-28  2:49                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-28  7:19                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-28  9:49                                                 ` Michael Albinus
2020-04-28 12:32                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-28 13:08                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-27 18:39                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-27 18:48                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-27 19:32                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-27 21:29                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-28  6:36                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-28  7:59                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-28 13:20                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-28 18:28                                                     ` chad
2020-04-28 23:14                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-29  3:28                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-27 18:49                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-27 20:02                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-27 20:35                                           ` Juri Linkov
2020-04-28 12:12                                         ` Nicolas Petton
2020-04-28 12:34                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-10 19:22                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-10 21:26                                           ` Yuan Fu
2020-05-11 13:24                                           ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-11 22:59                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-12  0:03                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-12  6:55                                               ` Colin Baxter
2020-05-14  5:04                                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-20  2:19                             ` "Why is emacs so square?" Richard Stallman
2020-04-20  3:07                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-20  5:07                                 ` Bob Newell
2020-04-20 13:49                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-15 19:27                                   ` Steinar Bang
2020-06-04  3:26                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-04  9:16                                       ` Arthur Miller
2020-06-04 21:50                                         ` Juri Linkov
2020-06-05 16:37                                           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-06-06 23:30                                             ` Juri Linkov
2020-06-07  0:33                                               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-06-07 10:16                                                 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-06-07  3:53                                               ` Drew Adams
2020-06-07  7:51                                               ` Yuri Khan
2020-06-07  9:10                                                 ` Yuri Khan
2020-06-08  3:31                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-07 11:59                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-06-07 15:32                                                 ` Drew Adams
2020-06-07 22:31                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2020-06-07 18:19                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-06-07 18:26                                                 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-06-07 22:31                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2020-06-07 23:24                                                   ` andres.ramirez
2020-06-07 23:24                                                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-06-10 12:43                                               ` Tab-bar autoclose question Ergus
2020-06-10 21:55                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2020-07-11  9:50                                                   ` Ergus
2020-07-12  0:08                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2020-06-05  3:12                                         ` "Why is emacs so square?" Richard Stallman
2020-06-05 10:48                                           ` Marcin Borkowski
2020-06-06  3:57                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-06 13:44                                               ` Arthur Miller
2020-06-07  3:37                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-07 14:52                                                   ` Arthur Miller
2020-06-05 13:01                                           ` Arthur Miller
2020-06-05 14:00                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-05 14:57                                               ` Arthur Miller
2020-06-05 15:10                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-05 16:15                                                   ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-06-05 17:32                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-06 12:49                                                       ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-06-06  3:56                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-06  6:55                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-05 15:27                                           ` Bob Newell
2020-06-05 21:54                                       ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-06-06  4:07                                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-06  6:35                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-07  8:03                                           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-06-07 14:21                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-07 21:57                                               ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-06-07 22:03                                                 ` Drew Adams
2020-06-08  5:41                                                   ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-06-08  3:31                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-21  1:51                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-21  7:01                                   ` Joost Kremers
2020-04-22  3:17                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-22  9:12                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-04-22 14:25                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-23  2:36                                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-23  8:41                                             ` Joost Kremers
2020-04-23 15:02                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24  6:36                                                 ` Joost Kremers
2020-04-24 10:14                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 10:28                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-24 11:14                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-15 19:41                                                         ` Steinar Bang
2020-04-24 10:36                                                     ` Joost Kremers
2020-04-24 11:17                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-17  3:36                                                     ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-06-17  3:46                                                       ` Arthur Miller
2020-04-24  2:37                                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-24  8:47                                                 ` Joost Kremers
2020-04-24  9:59                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 11:25                                                   ` Robert Pluim
2020-04-25  3:35                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-23 14:43                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24  2:43                                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-24 10:03                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 11:34                                                   ` Robert Pluim
2020-04-24 12:09                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 12:23                                                       ` Robert Pluim
2020-04-24 12:32                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 12:39                                                           ` Robert Pluim
2020-04-23 12:33                                           ` Po Lu
2020-04-23  2:32                                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-20  4:48                               ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  6:32                         ` 조성빈
2020-04-19  6:39                           ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  6:41                             ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  7:04                             ` 조성빈
2020-04-19  7:13                               ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  7:45                                 ` 조성빈
2020-04-19  7:55                                   ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  7:59                                     ` ndame
2020-04-19  8:14                                       ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  8:16                                         ` ndame
2020-04-19 12:07                                     ` 조성빈
2020-04-19 12:16                                       ` Po Lu
2020-04-20  2:19                                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-20  4:30                                           ` Po Lu
2020-04-21  1:50                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-21  2:11                                               ` Po Lu
2020-04-22  3:19                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-22  4:36                                                   ` Po Lu
2020-04-22 17:00                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-23 12:27                                                       ` Po Lu
2020-04-23 15:23                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-26  4:13                                                           ` Po Lu
2020-04-24  2:34                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-24  2:50                                                       ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-04-24  9:13                                                       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-04-25  3:36                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-25  6:46                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-26  3:24                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-24  9:55                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-19  6:52                         ` ndame
2020-04-19 13:29                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-19  2:18               ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-19  2:33                 ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  3:05                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-19  3:38                     ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  4:55                   ` ndame
2020-04-19  6:14                     ` Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers (was: "Why is emacs so square?") Po Lu
2020-04-19  6:54                       ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-04-19  7:22                         ` Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Po Lu
2020-04-19  8:05                       ` Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers (was: "Why is emacs so square?") 조성빈
2020-04-19  8:12                         ` ndame
2020-04-19  8:21                           ` Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Po Lu
2020-04-19  8:25                             ` ndame
2020-04-19  9:30                               ` Po Lu
2020-04-19 22:44                               ` Sébastien Gendre
2020-04-20  0:36                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-20  3:32                                   ` Tim Cross
2020-04-20  9:54                                     ` Po Lu
2020-04-20 13:50                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-21  8:52                                         ` Po Lu
2020-04-21 13:57                                         ` Simen Heggestøyl
2020-04-21 15:36                                           ` Yuan Fu
2020-04-22  3:14                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-22  4:33                                             ` Po Lu
2020-04-23  6:33                                               ` Ahmed Khanzada
2020-04-23 10:14                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-23 14:55                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-23 17:07                                                   ` Why are so many great packages not trying to get included in GNU Emacs? WAS: " Stefan Kangas
2020-04-23 23:45                                                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-24  0:51                                                       ` chad
2020-04-24  2:02                                                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-24  9:02                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24  5:26                                                     ` Po Lu
2020-04-25 15:31                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-26 11:57                                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-26 12:17                                                         ` Stephen Berman
2020-04-26 12:52                                                           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-06-13 11:59                                                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-13 12:50                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-13 13:41                                                         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-13 14:16                                                         ` Alan Third
2020-06-13 14:19                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-13 14:23                                                             ` Alan Third
2020-06-13 14:33                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-13 14:57                                                                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-13 15:02                                                                 ` Alan Third
2020-06-13 15:08                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-13 15:05                                                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2020-06-13 15:10                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-13 15:18                                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2020-06-14 22:11                                                                       ` git-send-email (was: Why are so many great packages not trying to get included in GNU Emacs?) Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-06-15  2:37                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-15  6:59                                                                           ` git-send-email Andreas Schwab
2020-06-15  8:12                                                                             ` git-send-email Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-15  9:10                                                                               ` git-send-email Andreas Schwab
2020-06-15 13:22                                                                                 ` git-send-email Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-06-15 14:07                                                                                   ` git-send-email Andreas Schwab
2020-06-15 14:15                                                                                     ` git-send-email Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-06-15 14:16                                                                                       ` git-send-email Andreas Schwab
2020-06-15 14:25                                                                                         ` git-send-email Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-06-15  8:23                                                                           ` git-send-email Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-06-15 14:42                                                                             ` git-send-email Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-15 15:38                                                                               ` git-send-email Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-06-15 17:12                                                                                 ` git-send-email Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-15 17:59                                                                                   ` git-send-email Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-06-15 18:08                                                                                     ` git-send-email Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-15 18:51                                                                                       ` git-send-email Paul Eggert
2020-06-15 18:59                                                                                         ` git-send-email Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-15 19:06                                                                                           ` git-send-email Paul Eggert
2020-06-22 10:17                                                                                       ` git-send-email Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-06-13 14:35                                                       ` Why are so many great packages not trying to get included in GNU Emacs? WAS: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Dmitry Gutov
2020-06-13 19:23                                                         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-13 19:31                                                           ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-06-13 20:24                                                             ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-13 20:30                                                               ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-06-13 20:52                                                                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-13 21:00                                                                   ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-13 21:24                                                                   ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-06-13 19:33                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-13 22:09                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-06-13 23:00                                                             ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-13 23:23                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-06-14 10:00                                                                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-13 19:38                                                         ` João Távora
2020-06-13 20:30                                                           ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-14 10:41                                                             ` João Távora
2020-06-18 17:49                                                               ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-06-18 22:34                                                                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-19 11:48                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-20 13:07                                                                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-20 14:02                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-20 15:41                                                                         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-20 16:10                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-20 18:04                                                                             ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-20 18:43                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-20 21:31                                                                                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-20 22:25                                                                                   ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-21  2:35                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-21  5:08                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-06-21  8:58                                                                                         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-21  9:00                                                                                       ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-21  1:37                                                                                   ` Yuan Fu
2020-06-21 13:49                                                                                   ` João Távora
2020-06-21 15:36                                                                                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-20 20:57                                                                               ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-06-20 21:35                                                                                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-17  3:58                                                       ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-06-17  8:58                                                         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-04-20  4:53                                 ` Po Lu
2020-04-20  6:08                                   ` 조성빈
2020-04-20  9:53                                     ` Po Lu
2020-04-20 13:07                                       ` 조성빈
2020-04-20 15:32                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-21  2:06                                         ` Po Lu
2020-04-21  2:17                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-21  4:42                                             ` Po Lu
2020-04-21 13:55                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-22  3:14                                                 ` How to poll the users Richard Stallman
2020-04-24  4:31                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-25  3:37                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-25  4:09                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-25 15:35                                                         ` Drew Adams
2020-04-25 15:44                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-25 16:15                                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-25 16:46                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-26 15:25                                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-26 16:22                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-27  2:18                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-25 16:20                                                             ` Drew Adams
2020-04-25 16:29                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-25 16:54                                                             ` Drew Adams
2020-04-25 16:57                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-25 17:16                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2020-04-25 15:36                                                         ` Drew Adams
2020-04-26  3:25                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-26 14:21                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-26  3:25                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-26 13:23                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-27  2:19                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-27  2:30                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-26 16:56                                                           ` Drew Adams
2020-04-26 17:27                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-26 17:44                                                               ` Drew Adams
2020-04-26 18:35                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-27  2:22                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-27  2:22                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-27  2:42                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-27  2:22                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-28  2:44                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-28  3:12                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-27  2:22                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-27  3:18                                                               ` Drew Adams
2020-04-28  3:06                                                                 ` Sacha Chua
2020-04-22  4:41                                                 ` Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Po Lu
2020-04-22  8:13                                                   ` Sergey Organov
2020-04-22  3:19                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-22 11:33                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-23  7:04                                             ` Ahmed Khanzada
2020-04-23 14:20                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-23 14:56                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-23 15:32                                                 ` Yuan Fu
2020-04-27 16:09                                                 ` Arthur Miller
2020-04-27 16:43                                                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-20 14:22                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-21 12:43                                   ` Sébastien Gendre
2020-04-21 14:38                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22  1:35                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-22  3:26                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-30  7:49                                           ` "Themes" shipping configuration - an unusual convention Stefan Kangas
2020-04-30 12:21                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-30 14:48                                             ` Drew Adams
2020-06-13 16:30                                             ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-04-22 13:22                                         ` Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 17:46                                           ` chad
2020-04-22 22:52                                             ` Yuan Fu
2020-04-23  0:12                                               ` chad
2020-04-23  0:49                                                 ` Yuan Fu
2020-04-22 17:55                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-19 13:35                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-19 19:14                               ` Drew Adams
2020-04-19 22:50                               ` Po Lu
2020-04-19  8:16                         ` Po Lu
2020-04-19 23:50                   ` "Why is emacs so square?" Stefan Kangas
2020-04-19  2:19             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-16 15:42           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-16 16:33             ` Drew Adams
2020-04-19  2:19             ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-24 16:38 ndame
2020-04-24 17:57 ` 조성빈
2020-04-24 18:02   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-24 18:10   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 18:28     ` Drew Adams
2020-04-24 18:42       ` chad
2020-04-24 18:53         ` ndame
2020-04-24 19:25           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 22:52             ` chad
2020-04-25  7:12               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 19:08         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-24 19:22         ` ndame
2020-04-24 19:30           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 18:40     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-24 19:22       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-24 21:57         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-25 16:28   ` ndame
2020-04-25 20:45     ` Yuan Fu
2020-04-26 23:15       ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-26  3:20   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] <<ae2588b0-c9ab-4c29-88e4-d1c6be5dfe94@default>
     [not found] ` <<CADwFkm=Vashc18sr=+h8XEdLAKa38U94jsnzc+TgABWFx0uQ9g@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]   ` <<86blno9yle.wl-me@enzu.ru>
     [not found]     ` <<87d0845msg.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]       ` <<WmYeBCfn8tubMj5iVHxMgGKmSC7hMl8ss713cEgHTq6o45pqJpQ5oRvZST_R4eRCfu3RENgyWVH4v2F4DK8P67GqjtnPbjnNRwFMRBrv2W0=@protonmail.com>
     [not found]         ` <<87h7xgjasw.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]           ` <<0B01B576-3DC7-4FAE-8010-C9B5CB6BA024@icloud.com>
     [not found]             ` <<87d084htcf.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]               ` <<149F5B4D-F219-409C-A994-096C777259EC@icloud.com>
     [not found]                 ` <<87v9lweynz.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]                   ` <<74B639DD-3775-4BE7-B0B2-300B5CE62E14@icloud.com>
     [not found]                     ` <<87k12bewpq.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]                       ` <<F9E49F3D-778C-4D40-93BB-F96F2027F72E@icloud.com>
     [not found]                         ` <<87o8rnacxr.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]                           ` <<E1jQM1n-0007pM-KG@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                             ` <<877dyaye21.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]                               ` <<E1jQi3e-0003b0-45@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                 ` <<87blnlbnba.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]                                   ` <<E1jR5v6-0002Ju-FR@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                     ` <<87v9lsqgqw.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]                                       ` <<E1jRoAd-0006LQ-TS@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                         ` <<87eesdfdpv.fsf@gmail.com>
     [not found]                                           ` <<E1jSBbn-0003eo-Vf@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                             ` <<83v9lo83kz.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-04-25 15:42                                               ` Drew Adams
2020-05-26 17:09 Jeff Norden
2020-05-26 23:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-29 14:27 ` Arthur Miller
2020-07-13 22:36 ` Jeff Norden
2020-07-13 23:37   ` Jeff Norden

Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.