From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 12:49:57 +0300 Message-ID: <87wo10tzga.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: <87y2lkb6kb.fsf@gmail.com> <9A4FA038-CCFD-45DF-8B57-E348AFF951D9@gmail.com> <87sgbsb0eb.fsf@gmail.com> <87h7s6c31d.fsf@gmail.com> <87mu1xrjqw.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <48ed4897-356c-4669-a330-1fdb5d65402b@default> <83lfhhijbl.fsf@gnu.org> <871rj9uz12.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9827"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, self@gkayaalp.com, ghe@sdf.org, eliz@gnu.org, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, tecosaur@gmail.com To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 11 11:50:41 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGfhY-0002Sc-Rl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 11:50:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59730 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGfhX-0004w4-TK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 05:50:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50476) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGfh3-0004V1-UX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 05:50:09 -0400 Original-Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:55311) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGfh1-0003IC-Gw; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 05:50:09 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 149.0.50.61 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [149.0.50.61]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CD4B20009; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 09:49:58 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.183.200; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay7-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/11 05:50:03 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255119 Archived-At: On 2020-09-11 07:16 +03, Richard Stallman wrote: > > There was an idea in another thread that we could ask major distros to > > not disable menu bar, and I said I could create the issues, but I tho= ugh > > I=E2=80=99d wait for some of the maintainers (dis)agree first. What d= o you > > think, would such a thing be useful? > I think that would be a good idea. So I just opened three tickets: https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/issues/13939 https://github.com/hlissner/doom-emacs/issues/3926 https://github.com/bbatsov/prelude/issues/1278 and contacted Phil Hagelberg, author of better-defaults.el, in private, because the Github repo was archived and I couldn=E2=80=99t figure out how = to report a bug on his sr.ht repo (looks like the feature is disabled). If anybody else knows of other prolific distributions, please reply here and I can add open tickets on their bug trackers too. > Another idea: code that runs for beginning users could tell the user, > > To learn what is available in Emacs, we recommend you type > C-u M-x menu-bar-mode RET > and then look at all the entries in each menu. You mean if menu-bar-mode is disabled? There is a variety of ideas like this, and they are nice, but IMHO the social side of this issue is more relevant---why users don=E2=80=99t find a= nd/or look for all the help and docs bundled with Emacs?---and a social solution would be of greater use. E.g. we could prominently feature the easy availability of extensive docs in Emacs right up top on . If I was to give an Emacs intro class tomorrow to non-programmers, the very first thing I=E2=80=99d teach, after a very brief description/demo of Emacs, would be C-h i/f/v/k and how to navigate Info and Help buffers. That=E2=80=99s because offline documentation is simply _absent_ from most software people use daily, and many even lack any online documentation---you=E2=80=99re expected to look at it and /know/. -- =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427