From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Always-true predicate? Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:47:46 +0100 Message-ID: <87wnv2q51p.fsf@gnus.org> References: <875z2qoqc6.fsf@gnus.org> <87eehcsal4.fsf@gmail.com> <83zh002zjm.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0r42nca.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbkrx9r.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35344"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , rpluim@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 20 13:48:47 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lDRgk-00093i-FW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:48:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37194 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lDRgj-0002sS-GW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 07:48:45 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33000) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lDRfv-00021q-R5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 07:47:55 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:60660) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lDRfu-0008Kg-65; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 07:47:55 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=p+wqTsdJKRazo4Is9cLby5TEBvYJJbuWSn4BQ+2OQMA=; b=OgO0stkCgqNouhk3JWu2A3jRkp +lzODhsMmTBOXvVCet1+d37a0evlLjmhy3c6xyBVMy3HYzo6KtWREAux8R48yleo7pm9oHwwTzyNz rkecLKePrtprAFipr4TqtETItGDO7loeqrYC3nKCpuml3UWOSfn9UlPovbHh/0YvA0XQ=; Original-Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lDRfo-0005h1-03; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:47:50 +0100 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEUxFRZQKiNuSz6Z clz///8Ql7uQAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+UCFAwVKsryZZ8AAAGlSURBVDjLdVOJESMx CDNJA8A2EKCBC+6/txN+dryTO5KJM5YRWMitVYgwt98gAyAyj6wDY+ldKtQ/3IhpA+SfwHaTVwef MuunMitBo6dH1yt7RO+Z4ROoSHwBjL/AqYB0bGdevV3xzTrh3lBJs5F+hfhCadvFkRF/2miK3717 R9+j1dk8iRVyOdZ1D1nLjMb0b2Cik+QHaIckqDGilNlaLuVkQC63yrRrFKBozdtvce8uHJvrLu52 ZRirPwcmmhIZclRfgLtAcFW9J7l6cDW1MFVZIq5fdwdwIa9EfGS4RWYxPi5IoorZJvi2KJsq0y/L SNnyTuBlnv6uCXtaexY3jSgvuPMDAHWIRaAFO9VlMnPyF4b+dTtEJO8Gi6p9S+KDCkU032kEJ84i tO8DqaQbfGrDugdAPdFwt+c8qNwucBUZywPgPfOnJOi3pu7DkKe6yz9uP8C0gxWw/bN8N57gGJfr OXWMFLvXAOwE8A6wI3hKqjZoaNmX+YUJzQe0C/N9EZ1NDd/Wi19c+IDJK2+0ez8hnlRMy+l0qLZ1 OG/yMOz/gMHxF/eRPGVO6/hUAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTAyLTIwVDEyOjIxOjQy KzAwOjAw4hQNFQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wMi0yMFQxMjoyMTo0MiswMDowMJNJ takAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Fairport Convention's _Come All Ye (2)_: "Bonny Bunch Of Roses" In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:42:34 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265303 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > I love functions, and am in no small part to blame for the use of > functions like `ignore` as default value of variables (more often > `defvar` than `defcustom`, but still), but indeed giving name to those > functions is important: it's not just that `always` saves a few bytes > over `(lambda (&rest _) t)` in the `.el` file (and then again in the > `.elc` and in RAM), but also that `C-h v` gives more readable output > (and if that value ever finds its way elsewhere, you can easily jump to > its definition). So we have some people for it, and some against it. If I read Eli correctly, he was not strictly speaking against it, but more worried that its presence would lead to more pure-predicate user options in general. I agree that those should be avoided, but `always' is still a handy, obvious value that should be available in the users' repertoire when constructing their own predicates (like with `ignore'). So I've now added it to Emacs 28. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no