From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sebastian Miele Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs design and architecture Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 13:59:00 +0200 Message-ID: <87wmwqiax9.fsf@whxvd.name> References: <83r0n4rj78.fsf@gnu.org> <83cyynpmvd.fsf@gnu.org> <838r99mh40.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6nwlmt4.fsf@gnu.org> <456d12ac-ecf4-3de4-56bb-a2440580777f@gutov.dev> <83a5tokmsv.fsf@gnu.org> <83sf7fki5g.fsf@gnu.org> <43d642a8-d1b4-05ed-41e0-6e52d22df2d4@gutov.dev> <83edizjn0v.fsf@gnu.org> <0518f65b-1dd1-6923-8497-da4d3aeac631@gutov.dev> <1cff05f8-df80-b776-5175-dd27a6e59799@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13334"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= , Eli Zaretskii , yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, owinebar@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 16 14:03:03 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qhU0s-0003FD-O5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 14:03:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qhU09-0006dL-CD; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:02:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qhU06-0006V6-DU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:02:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mout-p-101.mailbox.org ([2001:67c:2050:0:465::101]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qhU00-0000cR-QE; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:02:13 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org (smtp1.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:b231:465::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-101.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4RnqRT6GP6z9sQf; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 14:01:57 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=whxvd.name; s=MBO0001; t=1694865717; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ThHdqSEIzn9hQ8OZ1FE31uAiiaM8vppJmRGQJhL2+oQ=; b=PaP5P7VeTcz+7hor1uRqLgjpFkTNK9fB8Axad4XeCUNwRzvIz7fcrir+vciwflOlRrBehC s+jxa7RRzfHRdeW6KJt6Y/24CwnWvy3SktKGZNh36oQqX+3GVk7Qqa7R38HxtKAn/fGzLj 3QA/wjigi/YMkBfMwJqBQK+KPm1zTm1U/znqAfMqtUuPdpYt8u+IC/vjYCnhN9qu1LPXEh eaXn4navNerIsLOj9JT6CCyv9h9mzcdSXdffo6LEGMdfyaipj2Cv96Jps6+JSp3zJfnex3 IsMuOjHQDr0mnPG802IlcfYk8lwJbME94KO46t0T+mJSO7kWQWl4WHIeFfu0dA== In-reply-to: <1cff05f8-df80-b776-5175-dd27a6e59799@gutov.dev> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4RnqRT6GP6z9sQf Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:67c:2050:0:465::101; envelope-from=iota@whxvd.name; helo=mout-p-101.mailbox.org X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310624 Archived-At: > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Sat, 2023-09-16 14:02 +0300 > > On 16/09/2023 11:41, Gerd M=C3=B6llmann wrote: >> Dmitry Gutov writes: >>=20 >>> Microsoft also has a project that could be tried as a base (MIT >>> Licensed):https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-webview-ui-toolkit. Or >>> one could just use its internals for inspiration, because "Visual >>> Studio Code design language" is probably not one of our goals. >> Looks like Javascript/Typescript to me? > > Yep. But any attempt to reuse an existing browser engine would likely > have to deal with JavaScript on some level, I think. In the foreseeable future, probably not. I do not know the details. But there is WebAssembly. In order to access the DOM and possibly other browser API, at least a few months ago, it was still necessary to somehow go through JS. But it is very unlikely that that will not change in a not too distant future. There are many developements going on in that area that (will) make implementing further languages on top of WebAssembly easier and the languages and APIs interoperable with less and less overhead, and more and more common management (including GC). I have only a very superficial view. But in the last months I gained the impression, that WebAssembly and standards and stuff around it probably will become a very versatile and interoperable VM infrastracture, including "WebAssamble-native" APIs to almost anything. What may be interesting in that direction, too, are experimental browser engines like Servo. In the last months I read somewhere (and by people contributing to it) that Servo more or less explicitly has the aim to allow to take/use only parts of it, and to have as clear and approachable source code as possible. A next generation Emacs probably would not need or even want all that a web browser has to support. It could concentrate on a subset of web-stuff that already is known to work very well and efficiently. Disclaimer: I really do not know the details. This is only a superficial view gained during the last months.