From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:21:59 +0200 Message-ID: <87wmwmxvag.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <87il8betof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87jzspcgc9.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29850"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:01ITIaLE8MovY2R2NYJnz8xdk0o= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 19 14:14:42 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qiZco-0007Yc-5U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 14:14:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qiZbf-0008HJ-AO; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 08:13:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qiYny-0007AE-31 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:22:10 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qiYnw-0007bR-El for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:22:09 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qiYnu-0009DV-Hg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:22:06 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 08:13:29 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310750 Archived-At: Richard Stallman wrote: >> But the way it is used today, as we just heard in 28% of >> vanilla Emacs files, isn't because of CL emulation or >> compatibility purposes, but because it adds useful features >> and covers aspects that non-cl-lib Elisp leaves blank. > > I consider this a problem. Such frequent use of the cl > facilities -- even though it is just the macros -- adds > those cl macros to what people need to know to understand > those files. Okay, I understand. I must admit I don't really care about other people at such a fine grained level, but let's think then ... I think that non-programmers are a lost cause in this case anyway and for programmers the complexity increase from non-cl-lib Elisp to cl-lib is pretty much negligible? -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal