From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Cerqueira Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: @dircategory (Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strategic importance) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:14:36 +0000 Message-ID: <87wmsfy95v.fsf@brilhante.top> References: <8734vda9kz.fsf@yahoo.com> <5EC9A02F-DB34-48B6-BD2D-CB9E89A385D0@traductaire-libre.org> <83r0iwuek9.fsf@gnu.org> <837cknvkrx.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0iuuacz.fsf@gnu.org> <83frz4mmef.fsf@gnu.org> <87le8wyr0x.fsf@brilhante.top> <83mstckon2.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26138"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Daniel Cerqueira , pertusus@free.fr, jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 11 20:15:56 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: gnu-help-texinfo2@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rO0Wx-0006Ze-PX for gnu-help-texinfo2@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 20:15:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rO0Wj-0003TL-Is; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 14:15:46 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rO0W5-0003P1-Ei; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 14:15:03 -0500 Original-Received: from forward103c.mail.yandex.net ([2a02:6b8:c03:500:1:45:d181:d103]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rO0Vx-0007ja-NQ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 14:14:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-25.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-25.sas.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c08:2e14:0:640:2cd1:0]) by forward103c.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 9FEB060909; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 22:14:42 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: by mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-25.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id eEpQkUed4a60-xvJMvjSp; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 22:14:41 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brilhante.top; s=mail; t=1705000482; bh=DL7hsZ5yGwHC2mD9nwjvhSETXjBu4BO5ScFi1WUNUgk=; h=Message-ID:Date:Cc:In-Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From; b=O2bwiy9y+VtjZsmqivpjKdeW6tL743ZgQxb7XST/U4paTzK0Kv6/ohcJt7K1rTGn2 oVaD02YA7jzHfkwz930AJiKH0coqet4wokP2RXDo1OCZRYNoZb9uqNDgA2Lnne1BNm CC1B8ISiOOkXW1AUGpu0UMpkrAWGDhANOd7B1ypU= Authentication-Results: mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-25.sas.yp-c.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@brilhante.top In-Reply-To: <83mstckon2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 11 Jan 2024 15:04:01 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a02:6b8:c03:500:1:45:d181:d103; envelope-from=dan.list@brilhante.top; helo=forward103c.mail.yandex.net X-Spam_score_int: -22 X-Spam_score: -2.3 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.498, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-texinfo@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the Texinfo documentation system List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general:3409 gmane.emacs.devel:314870 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Daniel Cerqueira >> Cc: Patrice Dumas , >> jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, >> vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, >> help-texinfo@gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:48:46 +0000 >> > > What do you do if you need to translate a cross reference from the > GnuPG manual to the Emacs manual? Do you translate the node name to > which the cross-reference points? If so, how do you know what is the > translation of that node's name in the Emacs manual? > Sorry Eli, I did let anger take over when replying to you. Regarding GnuPG and Emacs manuals, those are not translated at GnuPG, AFAIK. The translators mostly do the .po files. There is also another file that needs translation. >> I wholeheartedly disagree with Eli. In here I am nobody, but still I >> don't like this complexity being added to a tool that I use to make >> my books (texinfo). > > So you prefer that the Info reader shows an error message when the > user clicks a cross reference to another manual, and the translation > of that manual is not installed on the user's system, even if the > English version of that manual _is_ installed? That's what I meant by > "sub-optimal". > > I didn't suggest any solution, let alone a complex one. I just said > that I think such a solution should exist. Let me see. I think it would be best to show a standard error page, that has links to the English manual, and a link or message to translate that untranslated part, to our own language. I would be ok with it automatically redirecting to the English manual, but I know that, for example, Brazilian Portuguese speakers know very little regarding English, and in that case, a English redirection might not be suitable. Requiring a internet connection is a no no. Don't know if I am contradicting myself, I suppose this is a bit complex. The English node names should be the ones to be used whole-languages-wide.