From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: we need *modularity* [last problem] (was: Re: as for Calc and the math library) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 13:03:34 +0200 Message-ID: <87wmkg3f21.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1871"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:g1KRQEmzn/VXItU/PAHFDjSPxIc= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 16 13:07:48 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1seuo8-0000KX-EC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2024 13:07:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seunI-0007jT-3w; Fri, 16 Aug 2024 07:06:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seukL-0007CD-KE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2024 07:03:53 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seukJ-00026o-1O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2024 07:03:53 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1seukG-0006vo-Ij for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2024 13:03:48 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 07:06:53 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322808 Archived-At: arthur miller wrote: > [...] Thanks for your post. Yes, I should stop rant but this realization that Emacs is like a huge legacy application - no modularity, no clear divisions, no sound policy how it happened - just go by instinct and when problem comes - put a convention in a book and add more stuff. At the same time people say Lisp is the most powerful language by definition and that cl-lib and pcase has ruined Emacs (both of these are very clean cut in general; in the Emacs jungle, they are a miracle of order). With ELPA we have some modularity, we should move stuff from core Emacs to ELPA and, as said, get real modularity based on the package with real prefixes and - well, everything real! And, based on technology and not some wishful thinking a--human-convention can even reduce such huge disadvantages to other technology. So it is _really bad_, no excuses, had I known it was like this - I don't know what would have happened - anyway ... it is what it is. But if we get real modularity we get real libraries and if we do, there is hope. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal