From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jay Belanger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:03:38 -0500 Message-ID: <87vepwp3it.fsf@vh213602.truman.edu> References: Reply-To: belanger@truman.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153156038 29134 80.91.229.2 (17 Jul 2006 17:07:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:07:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: belanger@truman.edu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 17 19:07:15 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2WVs-0006C9-6s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:04:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2WVr-0005Gq-Ow for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:04:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2WVW-00054z-97 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:03:46 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2WVS-00051o-E3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:03:45 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2WVS-00051d-8q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:03:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [24.116.0.230] (helo=S4.cableone.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G2WY9-0005ay-Jp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:06:29 -0400 Original-Received: from vh213602.truman.edu.truman.edu (unverified [24.116.73.175]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 67186048 for multiple; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:03:40 -0700 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:37:59 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-NotAscii: charset=us-ascii X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 60, in=21, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.116.73.175 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57200 Archived-At: "Drew Adams" writes: > > Newbies are overwhelmingly used to using a mouse. Let them do > > that while they get the basics of Info. > > Once they're used to it, they're less likely to change. > > They're already used to it - there are no more virgin users. They're not used to using the mouse with Emacs. > > Save the teaching of why it's better to learn to use the keyboard > > for later. > > When it will be too late for many. If indeed it is better to use the > keyboard (and I think it is), it seems a bad idea to begin by teaching > bad habits, however easy these habits may be. > > I'm not suggesting we teach them *any* way to perform simple navigation > (equivalent of `n' and `p'). On the contrary, my point was that we *need > not* teach that. There is an obvious, simple way to navigate: click a link > or navigation button. Falling back on that is effectively teaching them that's the way to do it, or at least allowing them to teach themselves thats how to do it. > I'm not worried about the risk that users will never learn to use `n' > instead of clicking the `Next' button. You are, apparently. Yes; but on my list of worries, this is fairly minor. > Info is a browser for finding and reading manuals. The argument for > keyboard shortcuts is vastly overstated when it comes to browsing > (vs editing). I would guess that someone using a mouse (or keyboard) for one part of Emacs would use it throughout.