French refcard

French refcard

[Chong Yidong]

Apparently, there is an overfull box in the french refcard.  Could
anyone suggest a more concise way of saying

  charger un fichier en lecture seule dans l'autre fen\^etre

... whatever that means ;-)

Re: French refcard

[Juanma Barranquero]

On 3/20/07, Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> wrote:

>   charger un fichier en lecture seule dans l'autre fen\^etre
>
> ... whatever that means ;-)

"load a read-only file in the other window", I think...

             Juanma

Re: French refcard

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> Apparently, there is an overfull box in the french refcard.  Could
> anyone suggest a more concise way of saying
>
>   charger un fichier en lecture seule dans l'autre fen\^etre

There's plenty of vertical space in that column, so hacking in a line
break seems to work.

I was more concerned with the issue on p3, where M-x
prefer-coding-system runs into the next column. The following simple
patch seems to fix that, though I have some memory that I tried this
before, then rejected it. Maybe it messes up somewhere else? I can't
see where though...

***************
*** 265,271 ****
  % Tries to justify the beginning of the command name at the same place
  % as \key starts the key name.  (The "M-x " sticks out to the left.)
  \def\metax#1#2{\leavevmode\hbox to \hsize{\vbox
!   {\hsize=.74\hsize\rightskip=1em
     \raggedright \tolerance=20000
     \hskip\keyindent\hangindent=1em\strut#1\strut\par}%
     %\hskip-\metaxwidth minus 1fil
--- 265,271 ----
  % Tries to justify the beginning of the command name at the same place
  % as \key starts the key name.  (The "M-x " sticks out to the left.)
  \def\metax#1#2{\leavevmode\hbox to \hsize{\vbox
!   {\hsize=.7\hsize\rightskip=1em
     \raggedright \tolerance=20000
     \hskip\keyindent\hangindent=1em\strut#1\strut\par}%
     %\hskip-\metaxwidth minus 1fil
***************
*** 437,443 ****
  \threecol{s\'electionner le tampon dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 b}{C-x 5 b}
  \threecol{afficher le tampon dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 C-o}{C-x 5 C-o}
  \threecol{charger un fichier dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 f}{C-x 5 f}
! \threecol{charger un fichier en lecture seule dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 r}{C-x 5 r}
  \threecol{lancer Dired  dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 d}{C-x 5 d}
  \threecol{trouver un tag dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 .}{C-x 5 .}
  }}
--- 437,444 ----
  \threecol{s\'electionner le tampon dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 b}{C-x 5 b}
  \threecol{afficher le tampon dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 C-o}{C-x 5 C-o}
  \threecol{charger un fichier dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 f}{C-x 5 f}
! \threecol{charger un fichier en lecture seule dans\cr
! \hskip 10pt l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 r}{C-x 5 r}
  \threecol{lancer Dired  dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 d}{C-x 5 d}
  \threecol{trouver un tag dans l'autre fen\^etre}{C-x 4 .}{C-x 5 .}
  }}

Re: French refcard

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:18:48 -0400
> 
> Apparently, there is an overfull box in the french refcard.

How bad is it?  (How many points is it overfull by, according to TeX?)

If the number is small, you can disregard it, as no human will ever
notice.

Re: French refcard

[Raffael Mancini]

Chong Yidong wrote:
>   charger un fichier en lecture seule dans l'autre fen\^etre
I don't think there is a way to make this shorter without abbreviating
any words. That's how French is ;-)
Greets,
Raffael Mancini


PS: Translated literally:
charger (load) un fichier ( a file ) en (in)  lecture seule (read-only
[mode]) dans (in) l'autre (the other)  fenetre (window)

Re: French refcard

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Apparently, there is an overfull box in the french refcard.
> How bad is it?  (How many points is it overfull by, according to TeX?)
> If the number is small, you can disregard it, as no human will ever
> notice.

Only if it's *really* small: don't underestimate nitpickers,


        Stefan

Re: French refcard

[Chong Yidong]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Chong Yidong wrote:
>
>> Apparently, there is an overfull box in the french refcard.  Could
>> anyone suggest a more concise way of saying
>>
>>   charger un fichier en lecture seule dans l'autre fen\^etre
>
> There's plenty of vertical space in that column, so hacking in a line
> break seems to work.
>
> I was more concerned with the issue on p3, where M-x
> prefer-coding-system runs into the next column. The following simple
> patch seems to fix that, though I have some memory that I tried this
> before, then rejected it. Maybe it messes up somewhere else? I can't
> see where though...

Well, if you don't see where, why not check it in.

Re: French refcard

[Glenn Morris]

What size paper are the postscript documents in etc/ supposed to be
on? I've been making them A4 when regenerating them, because they seem
to look bad on letter, but this seems contrary to normal Emacs
practice (US spelling, etc).

It seems some of them have a \letterpaper option, some set to US
letter, some to A4. Are all the non-English ones meant to be on A4 (do
any countries outside the US use US letter?), and all the English ones
letter?

Re: French refcard

[Richard Stallman]

      charger un fichier en lecture seule dans l'autre fen\^etre

Does this make it fit?

      charger un fichier (lecture seule) dans l'autre fen\^etre

Re: French refcard

[Stefan Monnier]

> (do any countries outside the US use US letter?),

It turns out Canada uses "US letter" as well.


        Stefan

Re: French refcard

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> Well, if you don't see where, why not check it in.

I checked in many hacks to make it fit on letter paper.

Post-release, someone who knows about TeX may want to do it properly
(or indeed convert all these files to LaTeX).

Re: French refcard

[David Kastrup]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Chong Yidong wrote:
>
>> Well, if you don't see where, why not check it in.
>
> I checked in many hacks to make it fit on letter paper.
>
> Post-release, someone who knows about TeX may want to do it properly
> (or indeed convert all these files to LaTeX).

I don't think there is much point in converting them to LaTeX.  They
are strictly intended for printing on squeezed paper, and they do that
job reasonably well.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: French refcard

[Michaël Cadilhac]

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Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Are all the non-English ones meant to be on A4 (do any countries
> outside the US use US letter?), and all the English ones letter?

Well, I had never seen « US letter » sized papers before I got one
From the FSF ;-)

Only A4 paper is used here (in France) for letter, basic printing, ...

If you need some help on this file (mainly on vocab), feel free to ask
me.  For the proposed sentence, I can't find better than Richard's
proposal.

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Re: French refcard

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Mar 21 2007, Michaël Cadilhac wrote:

> If you need some help on this file (mainly on vocab), feel free to ask
> me.  

Probably fr-refcard could be improved to fit on two pages, like the
de-refcard.  In June 2006 I wrote to Eric Jacoboni about this...

,----
| I think the major problem in fr-refcard.tex is this large linespread
| (I couldn't quickly find out how to fix it, though) and that French
| (and German) tends to produce longer explanations than English.
| Somehow Sven Joachim managed to produce a German refcard that fits
| nicely on two A4 pages (3 columns, landscape); maybe you can use the
| layout parts from document preamble of de-refcard.tex?
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: French refcard

[Glenn Morris]

Glenn Morris wrote:

> What size paper are the postscript documents in etc/ supposed to be
> on? [...]
> It seems some of them have a \letterpaper option, some set to US
> letter, some to A4. Are all the non-English ones meant to be on A4 (do
> any countries outside the US use US letter?), and all the English ones
> letter?


In the absence of a clear rule, I implemented the scheme of "English
on letter, translations on A4", which at least makes a kind of sense
to me (though I could see a case for all a4 or all letter).

Sorry letter-using French Canadians, you're outnumbered by a4-using
Frenchmen.

Re: French refcard

[Michaël Cadilhac]

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Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> On Wed, Mar 21 2007, Michaël Cadilhac wrote:
>
>> If you need some help on this file (mainly on vocab), feel free to ask
>> me.  
>
> Probably fr-refcard could be improved to fit on two pages, like the
> de-refcard.  In June 2006 I wrote to Eric Jacoboni about this...

Okey, I had some time to spare, so I did it. I don't think the diff is
of any interest, because almost each line has been rewritten.

However, here are the urls for the document :
http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m/fr-refcard.ps
http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m/fr-refcard.dvi
http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m/fr-refcard.tex

This document now fits on two pages, with code taken from the
de-refcard.

Any advice appreciated !

-- 
 |   Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac       |  «Tu aimeras ton prochain.»            |
 |   http://michael.cadilhac.name   |    D'abord, Dieu ou pas,               |
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Re: French refcard

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, May 11 2007, Michaël Cadilhac wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>> Probably fr-refcard could be improved to fit on two pages, like the
>> de-refcard.  In June 2006 I wrote to Eric Jacoboni about this...
>
> Okey, I had some time to spare, so I did it. I don't think the diff is
> of any interest, because almost each line has been rewritten.
>
> However, here are the urls for the document :
> http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m/fr-refcard.ps
[...]
> http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m/fr-refcard.tex
>
> This document now fits on two pages, with code taken from the
> de-refcard.
>
> Any advice appreciated !

The layout looks good (I can't say anything WRT the language as my
French is quite rusty).

I'd suggest to install it in EMACS_22_BASE, but maybe you should wait
for Richard's approval.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: French refcard

[Richard Stallman]

Please install this in EMACS_22_BASE, since it can't break any code.
Thank you.

Re: French refcard

[Michaël Cadilhac]

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michael@cadilhac.name (Michaël Cadilhac) writes:

> However, here are the urls for the document :
> http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m/fr-refcard.ps
> http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m/fr-refcard.pdf
> http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m/fr-refcard.dvi
> http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m/fr-refcard.tex

Updated (well, almost rewritten entirely again), thanks to the
recommendations of Laurent Le-Brun, Thomas Claveirole and Quentin
Hocquet.

If there's no more comment tomorrow, I'll install it. Note, I still need
an answer for this question (copyright issues maybe?)

> Speaking of which, should we keep the
> \centerline{traduction fran\c{c}aise d'\'Eric Jacoboni}
>                (French translation by Eric Jacoboni)
> line?   I've modified almost every line of it, rewriting the file from
> the German one, but I think (I don't know about copyright issues) that
> there's no need to put such a line (well, it'd be certainly gratifying,
> but it's not in the FOSS way of life, isn't it :-)).

Cheers.

-- 
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Re: French refcard

[Richard Stallman]

    If there's no more comment tomorrow, I'll install it.

Please install it in the trunk and in EMACS_22_BASE.

							  Note, I still need
    an answer for this question (copyright issues maybe?)

I answered you in my first batch of mail after seeing the previous
message about this issue.  It takes time for me to receive mail and
respond.  Please wait 30 hours before you start to suppose there
might be some problem.

Re: French refcard

[Michaël Cadilhac]

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Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     If there's no more comment tomorrow, I'll install it.
>
> Please install it in the trunk and in EMACS_22_BASE.

Done.

> I answered you in my first batch of mail after seeing the previous
> message about this issue.  It takes time for me to receive mail and
> respond.  Please wait 30 hours before you start to suppose there
> might be some problem.

Yes, sorry.  I was more or less asking Reiner here, who seems in charge
of the refcards, but it wasn't clear.

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