From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Giorgos Keramidas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why emacs have not native language menu Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:56:14 +0300 Organization: SunSITE.dk - Supporting Open source Message-ID: <87vec84075.fsf@kobe.laptop> References: <46A49912.9030203@luxdo.jp> <877ioqdoq9.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <87hcnuc6hz.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <878x95dhne.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <52sl7dopel.fsf@googlemail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1185457242 32384 80.91.229.12 (26 Jul 2007 13:40:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:40:42 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 26 15:40:41 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IE3Zz-0000NY-4E for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:40:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE3Zy-0002ti-H9 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:40:34 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!news3.google.com!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!fdn.fr!club-internet.fr!feedme-small.clubint.net!nuzba.szn.dk!news.szn.dk!pnx.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!news.dotsrc.org!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (berkeley-unix) Cancel-Lock: sha1:/lrsH+hAIgYMsh3mvChjsx3UE6o= Original-Lines: 33 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.235.244.135 Original-X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk DXC=IS8U7M8TL^MjWPhb63:>SPn^>P; W:54]HfPW3YSn7OJ=@P Original-X-Complaints-To: staff@sunsite.dk Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:150509 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:46089 Archived-At: On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:19:14 +0200, Hadron wrote: >Pascal Bourguignon writes: >>> No. That is NOT what emacs is. eLisp is the programming >>> language. Emacs is an infrastructure which supports multiple >>> applications programmed in elisp. They can be localised. >> >> Look, if you asked to localize microemacs or nano, I'd say, no >> problem go ahead. But emacs is lisp. > > We are talking the command names interfaces and help texts - not the > function names. e.g you dont see "find-file-at-point" in the > menu. No. You find "Open File" or similar. But then you have to write the manual for this localized menu, and all sorts of problems creep up. For example it is _very_ easy to explain to an English-speaking person that `M-x find-file RET path RET' is the same as `menu: File | Open ...', and the English-speaking person will quickly get used to the term `find-file'. If you describe in an ISO 8859-7 Greek manual that the following are equivalent: M-x find-file RET διαδρομή RET μενού: Αρχείο | Άνοιγμα ... which are the localized versions, then it's not as easy to remember that the `random' name `find-file' maps easily to the Greek text for "Open..." :-( While I agree that localization *is* useful, it's also my understanding that it is not a particularly easy task, nor an effort that can always create the same mental `mappings' between menu entries, help text, tooltips, keyboard sequences, etc.