From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johannes Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Release plans Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:27:19 +0200 Message-ID: <87vdxx9a5k.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> References: <48A5BAD7.8030302@emf.net> <48A740CB.4050404@emf.net> <20080816213508.GA8530@muc.de> <87hc9ka8eg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20080817073124.GA1294@muc.de> <87ljyv5gy5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20080818101802.GA2615@muc.de> <87bpzqqk7b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20080818210927.GD2615@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1219102083 11790 80.91.229.12 (18 Aug 2008 23:28:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:28:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 19 01:28:55 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KVE9c-0007u1-Rd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:28:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36877 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KVE8f-0003Dm-9r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:27:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KVE8b-0003Dh-Lf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:27:49 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KVE8a-0003DV-M0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:27:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45623 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KVE8a-0003DS-G0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:27:48 -0400 Original-Received: from saeurebad.de ([85.214.36.134]:49112) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KVE8W-0007mX-2A; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:27:44 -0400 Original-Received: by saeurebad.de (Postfix, from userid 107) id 6CC352F00CA; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:27:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (217-68-166-87.dynamic.primacom.net [217.68.166.87]) by saeurebad.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E69B02F00C6; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:27:40 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <20080818210927.GD2615@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:09:27 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.3 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:102615 Archived-At: Hi, Alan Mackenzie writes: >> And what is the difference between an Emacs that calls non-free code >> via a binary module, and an Emacs that accesses files via TRAMP and >> non-free SSH? > > The ability of a binary module to disable `defun' and prevent all but > digitally signed code from being loaded. How about fset'ing defun to something new? You still have not answered to what I said yesterday: This microsoft8.dll `functionality' does not in any way rely on the feature proposed here. And if you would want to do Bad Things, what prevents you from calling a non-free binary with Emacs' process interface? See, I really believe in your points that this feature has the potential to be abused. But to me it is not obvious how it would open a _extra_ possibilities besides doing it more technically advanced. The libotr bindings I have in mind would also work with the process model. Just hack up an executable that can be controlled by command-line arguments to wire up your elisp stuff with libotr. But frankly, I only have seen such irksome solutions by people with low motives and little technical interest. Look at how bad programs like matlab are distributed: they dump themselves into /opt including all the shared libaries they need while totally ignoring the rest of the system, not giving a damn about standards. So if I had other motives than technical cleverness and elegance, it seems I would already be able to interact really close with non-free software (not the ssh case but with an executable abstraction of a non-free library!). But I have no way right now to implement pluggable bindings in a sane way that I would consider better than an ugly hack. Hannes